The price of sin and the grace of God.

[J.Davis]

Hi guys, I wanted to share this with you…I’ve had it for awhile, but now I feel that everything is accurate enough to post it…

I have posted several interpretations of the garden of the Eden story, along with the meaning behind several of the metaphors. This one focuses on Satan and the deceitful covenant he made with mankind. It is important to note that the metaphors in the garden of Eden story symbolize a number of things depending on who we focus on (God, Satan or humans). They are very complex metaphors with triple meaning and multiple elements contained within the various meanings.

For Satan (starting from this point in the story) the metaphors mean the following…

Genesis 3:1 He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.

First Satan asked Eve if she knew the truth..(Same as God ask…“confess with your mouth“).

Genesis 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Then he tells Eve that she will not die (possibly speaking of eternal life in Hell/reassuring her in a deceitful way). Next, Satan suggest that God lies, meaning that Satan is the way (and his twisted version of ) the truth and the life. Then he tells Eve that she will be like God when she eats the fruit (< this is important). In short, Satan gives Adam and Eve the choice to accept his offer/the fruit (which is his law/sin/basically acknowledgment that they will accept his word over God‘s word).

So lets recap… Satan tells Adam and Eve that they will not die and offers them sin in exchange for them giving themselves to him, as man Gods!

At this point, Eve believed in her heart/soul that she would not die, she would be wise (like God) and she believed and accepted Satan’s word as the truth over God’s word. Then she convinced Adam to accept what Satan said (Genesis 3:6).

Next…

After eating the fruit God told them not to eat, Adam and Eve obtained one of God’s attributes, thus making them gods and accountable to Satan as gods (man god's Genesis 3:22). But they are only partial gods, having the status of a God, but only the power/ability to make God like decisions. Also, Satan is now Adam and Eve’s new lord according to God’s legally binding process (confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Romans 10:9). Therefore, he has access to their authoritative power (Adam and Eve were humanities lords- Genesis 1:26 Luke 3:38). So Satan has (limited human) power over the earth (including all humans).

Furthermore, Adam and Eve are bound by the terms of the agreement, so they must give themselves to Satan. Meaning they can not live on earth forever. Therefore, Adam and Eve, having a tainted soul, begin to physically die after they take hold of and consume a portion of that which belongs to God. But, for Satan, death is a legal requirement. In order to fulfill the conditions of the covenant and enter Satan’s realm as an offering, humans had to die because that is the only way to get to Satan's realm and fulfill the terms of the covenant.

Now obviously, Adam and Eve can never fulfill the terms of the covenant they made with Satan. Why you ask? Because, they are not full Gods (do not have the value of God) and they could never keep every one of Satan’s laws (do every sin). Therefore, Adam, Eve and all of humanity (due to their parents/former earthly lords debt) is eternally indebted to Satan, slaves who can do nothing but pay off their debt in hell, as Satan’s playthings, to do with as he pleases.

But God had a plan…

God comes to earth through the bloodline of Adam, giving Jesus the same authority Adam had to make decisions concerning humanity and the earth. Then He carried every sin that exist (1 Peter 2:24), dies, goes to hell and gives Satan that which belongs to him. One true blue, 100% celestial grade Man God who possess all sin, thus fulfilling all the requirements of Satan’s law and the conditions of the covenant. And then Jesus left hell (because humanities debt was paid in full, He has the power to leave and He is Satan’s God so Satan has no power over him) and ascended to Heaven and gave His perfect blood as proof that He has fulfilled all the requirements of God’s Law and has the right to offer humanity eternal redemption, salvation and eternal life after freeing humanity from Satan’s grip (Hebrews 9:12).

Note, I did not say Jesus sinned, I said carried and possessed sin (so like a container holds water but is not water).

Debt paid in full!

So, God is Satan's God so He has authority over Satan. But Satan gained rights to humans using God’s law, so God honored His own law and word not Satan's. Therefore, God allowed the covenant between Satan, Adam and Eve Until he paid off all debts (for us) and could say in all honesty that He had full legal right to pardon mankind, as a Man God.

So we are free…

But all is not perfect yet… Humans (all of us) still fall for Satan’s deceitful arrangement. Anyone who sins, knowing right and wrong, has agreed to Satan’s conditions. But now, we have a Lord over all humanity and all the earth, who is not ruled and dominated due to Satan’s deceitful trickery. No matter what we have done, if He (Jesus) is our Lord, He can simply say: my people do not have to abide by your stupid pact, I am their lord and your God, all arrangements of that nature are void in my kingdom, your claim is invalid.

Praise God, for he is worthy (in endless ways)!

J.Davis

[J.Davis]

Notes…Satan’s reign also explains…

Why Satan could ask to have access to humans, he literally made a covenant with Adam and Eve that gave him the right (Luke 22:31). But because God is Satan’s God and ruler of all, He could adjust the conditions under which Satan would have access to humans (like protecting them for a period of time, determining the extent of Satan’s interaction, shorting or lengthening humans life etc).

And, in the old testament, when God said mans sin was great, I think He was saying that it was way worse than the sin we have today. Back in the old testament (because of what I stated concerning Satan’s reign) it’s likely that humans were encouraged to sin in a way we do not understand today.

Also, the end of Satan’s reign explains the lack of demon possessions. Satan and his army simply do not have the same power (Adam and Eve’s power) and right to possess humans in the same way they did in the old testament or the time before Jesus died for Adam and Eve’s blunder (they never had a clue as to what they were doing, but they should have left the forbidden fruit alone).

Furthermore, this makes me think that sacrificial animals were given human debt equivalency value, compromising for their (humans) misfortunate plight, by virtue of God ordained transference. Offerings given as a token unto God for trespasses, and the equivalency price for humans shortcomings, making up the difference pertaining to matters at hand.

And so on..

Anyway, for those that want to consider the interpretations in this post, I hope they help you out when you interpret scripture.

[B. W.]

This is an interesting take on the metaphors used in the Genesis accounts. Like to read more when you get the time as there are layers of meaning in all of scripture.

I am not sure the devil offered a contract, maybe a better word or phrase could be used. I think of contracts as written legal documents and lawyers! Maybe covenant would be a better word to use rather than contract. Humanity joined a covenant agreement exchanging liberty for tyranny.

The devil desires to mesh people into a mold, conform, like pouring jello into a mold – he then places a person where it’s cold. That would be the covenant – cast into the devil’s mold of conformity and control. The world then kept cold and dark. He jiggles the jello a bit to keep people deceived that they are not in a mold, etc. (Be not conformed this world Paul wrote)

The Lord’s plan is to metamorphosis (transform) out of this conformity…

Just a few ideas to add…and ponder on

Hi guys, I wanted to share this with you…I’ve had it for awhile, but now I feel that everything is accurate enough to post it…

I have posted several interpretations of the garden of the Eden story, along with the meaning behind several of the metaphors. This one focuses on Satan and the deceitful contract he offered mankind. It is important to note that the metaphors in the garden of Eden story symbolize a number of things depending on who we focus on (God, Satan or humans). They are very complex metaphors with triple meaning and multiple elements contained within the various meanings.

For Satan (starting from this point in the story, the metaphors mean the following…

Genesis 3:1 He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.

First Satan asked Eve if she knew the truth..(Same as God ask…“confess with your mouth“).

Genesis 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Then he tells Eve that she will not die (possibly speaking of eternal life in Hell/reassuring her in a deceitful way). Next, Satan suggest that God lies, meaning that Satan is the way (and his twisted version of ) the truth and the life. Then he tells Eve that she will be like God when she eats the fruit (< this is important). In short, Satan gives Adam and Eve the choice to accept his offer/the fruit (which is his law/sin/basically acknowledgment that they will accept his word over God‘s word.

So lets recap… Satan tells Adam and Eve that they will not die and offers them sin in exchange for them giving themselves to him, as man Gods!

At this point, Eve believed in her heart/soul that she would not die, she would be wise (like God) and she believed and accepted Satan’s word as the truth over God’s word. Then she convinced Adam to accept what Satan said (Genesis 3:6).

Next…

After eating the fruit God told them not to eat, Adam and Eve obtained one of God’s attributes, thus making them gods and accountable to Satan as gods (man god's Genesis 3:22). But they are only partial gods, having the status of a God, but only the power/ability to make God like decisions. Also, Satan is now Adam and Eve’s new lord according to God’s legally binding process (confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Romans 10:9). Therefore, he has access to their authoritative power (Adam and Eve were humanities lords- Genesis 1:26 Luke 3:38). So Satan has (limited human) power over the earth (including all humans).

Now obviously, Adam and Eve can never fulfill the contract they made with Satan. Why you ask? Because, they are not full Gods and they could never keep every one of Satan’s laws (do every sin). Therefore, Adam, Eve and all of humanity (due to their parents debt) is eternally indebted to Satan, slaves who can do nothing but pay off their debt in hell, as Satan’s playthings, to do with as he pleases.

Also, Adam and Eve are bound by the terms of the contract, so they must give themselves to Satan. Meaning they can not live on earth forever. Therefore, Adam and Eve, having a tainted soul, begin to physically die after they take hold of and consume a portion of that which belongs to God. But, for Satan, death is a legal requirement. In order to fulfill the conditions of the contract and enter Satan’s realm as an offering, humans had to die because that is the only way to get to Satan's realm and fulfill the agreement.

But God had a plan…

God comes to earth through the bloodline of Adam, giving Jesus the same authority Adam had to make decisions concerning humanity and the earth. Then He carried every sin that exist, dies, goes to hell and gives Satan that which belongs to him. One true blue, 100% celestial grade Man God who possess all sin, thus fulfilling all the requirements of Satan’s law and the conditions of the contract. And then Jesus left hell (because humanities debate was paid in full, He has the power to leave and He is Satan’s God so Satan has no power over him) and ascended to Heaven and gave His perfect blood as proof that He has fulfilled all the requirements of God’s Law and has the right to offer humanity eternal redemption, salvation and eternal life after freeing humanity from Satan’s grip (Hebrews 9:12).

Note, I did not say God sinned, I said carried and possessed sin (so like a container holds water but is not water).

Debt paid in full!

So, God is Satan's God so He has authority over Satan. But Satan gained rights to humans using God’s law, so God honored His own law and word not Satan's. Therefore, God allowed the contract between Satan, Adam and Eve Until he paid off all debts (for us) and could say in all honesty that He had full legal right to pardon mankind, as a Man God.

So we are free…

But all is not perfect yet… Humans (all of us) still fall for Satan’s deceitful contract. Anyone who sins, knowing right and wrong, has agreed to Satan’s conditions. But now, we have a Lord over all humanity and all the earth, who is not ruled and dominated due to Satan’s deceitful trickery. No matter what we have done, if He (Jesus) is our Lord, He can simply say: my people do not have to abide by your stupid contract, I am their lord and your God, all contracts of that nature are void in my kingdom, your claim is invalid.

Praise God, for he is worthy (in endless ways)!

J.Davis

[J.Davis]

Thanks for the feedback B.W!

I was hoping to get your insight on the matter as you seem to have a good understanding concerning the legal side of scripture. I think you are right about the word contract, people might think of written documents concerning that word and that is not the idea I was trying to convey concerning that element of my post. Covenant is a good fit, it’s the word the bible uses concerning this type of agreement and many Christians are familiar with it. I do worrier that the word is not common among the unsaved thought. But for this forum and many other Christian forms, I think that it is a better fit than contract. I may just go with agreement on non Christian forums.

I’ll edit the post and use both covenant and agreement…

I don’t know about the jiggling jello or molds and all that businesses though ..LOL!

I always post things like this here first to see what you guys think (because I have not seen a more brilliant bunch).

I’m not sure how much more work I will do with the garden of Eden story but I will definitely share anything significant!

Thanks again B.W!!!

[B. W.]

I don’t know about the jiggling jello or molds and all that businesses though ..LOL!

Look at Jello a bit more to see what I mean. I use this illustration when I teach the Gospel… as I travel about...

Look at Romans 12:2 with the added Greek word definitions, “And do not be conformed (from Greek word suschēmatízō -To make alike, conform to the same pattern, mold, conform to a pattern - a mold) to this world, but be transformed (from Greek word metamorphóō; denotes change of place or condition, transform, transfigure, change one's form into something new, transfigured) by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” NASB

The Devil desire is to ‘conform’ people into a mold of his world (god/ruler of this world. Note: John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11c). Christ came to transfigure us of this mold. How do you make Jello? It takes bitter sweet powder, water, stirring, heat, poured into a mold and cold darkness to make jello conform to the pattern of a mold.

Likewise, people (made mostly of water) are enticed with sweetness that soon becomes bitter. Then next, they are stirred up and heated with strife, burning sin, etc, then poured into the devils mold. After that, they are kept in a dark cold refrigerator. The devils may jiggle the jello once in a while to keep it deceived and content so it does not recognize the purpose of cold darkness for what it is and its goal.

Nimrod was a hunter of men, who most likely began slavery out of conquered people to have them make uniform square bricks to make a city and the Tower of Babel. The devils servants desire people to fit into a conform mold. The altars’ for Babylonian idols were made with uniform cut stone. The altar God desires built were all of uncut stones fitted together with purpose. In the building of altars, worlds verse God’s, you have truth conveyed. The Devil wants you in a mold. God wants you free, as you are, fitted into his purpose and will.

In Hell, the bible describes chambers, cells, within its walls (Note - Proverbs 7:27, Isaiah 24:22, Ezekiel 32: 23-32, “…whose graves (chamber, sepulcher, cell) are set in the remotest parts of the pit and her company is round about her grave. All of them are slain, fallen by the sword, who spread terror in the land of the living.” NASB). You can say, the devils want you in a final mold.

The way out of this is described by Paul in Romans 12:2: “And do not be conformed (molded) to this world, but be transformed (metamorphosed, transfigured) by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.”

There you have the truth about Jello molds!
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[J.Davis]

You know, I like that analogy!

I can definitely see your analogy being preached or taught as a follow up to the message in my first post. It gives a way of illustrating Satan’s nature and intentions and emphasizes that his way should be avoided at all cost, because it is destined to fail, as illustrated by the wisdom, love and self-sacrificing nature and way of our lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Amen!

Not everything's Better With Jello!


Thanks again for the support B.W!

[PaulSacramento]

I view Our Sin in much the way Augustine did: Pride.
THE SIN.
Our pride makes us believe that we can be Gods, that we no longer need God and that we can "do it ourselves" even though history AND the very process of growth from infant to adult tells us otherwise.
Satan is not our ruler, nor is he God's adversary, He is OUR adversary and as James said, "Resist the devil and he will flee", but how do we do that?
Alone? with out own strength? Nope, that again is Our Original sin of Pride, belief that we don't need God.
We can only do better, we can only resist Satan, we can only have the kingdom of God IN US when we have Christ IN US, only by being in union with the source of all light and love, only by saying " I need God to do this", can we DO THIS.
When our pride is eliminated we are free, the truth shall sets us free and the truth is Christ and with Christ in Us, we have no pride and we are truly free for unto His Hands we have committed our Spirit, Our Love, Our Hope and Our Faith.

[B. W.]

I view Our Sin in much the way Augustine did: Pride.
THE SIN.
Our pride makes us believe that we can be Gods, that we no longer need God and that we can "do it ourselves" even though history AND the very process of growth from infant to adult tells us otherwise.
Satan is not our ruler, nor is he God's adversary, He is OUR adversary and as James said, "Resist the devil and he will flee", but how do we do that?
Alone? with out own strength? Nope, that again is Our Original sin of Pride, belief that we don't need God.
We can only do better, we can only resist Satan, we can only have the kingdom of God IN US when we have Christ IN US, only by being in union with the source of all light and love, only by saying " I need God to do this", can we DO THIS.
When our pride is eliminated we are free, the truth shall sets us free and the truth is Christ and with Christ in Us, we have no pride and we are truly free for unto His Hands we have committed our Spirit, Our Love, Our Hope and Our Faith.

One things to consider about pride and people wanting to be own gods is that to do so, one would need to exalt their rule over and above the LORD God's rule (throne).

There is a tactical manner in which one attempts to do this. What are these tactical maneuvers – how do they work?

The working and doing of these defines sin and brings forth the fruit of sin. The fruits of sin provoke God to act contrary to His own nature and own moral character. Sin means to twist off course, miss the mark, deviate and hence offend God..

1 John 3:4, “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” KJV

It takes the true definition of selfish – arrogant – pride steeped with knowledge/wisdom/beauty of the Holy to even think one could possibly overthrow the LORD God. (Read Ezekiel 28:12-20c).

What better way to break the law than by gaming it, exploiting it, manipulating it, exploiting it, pitting it against itself against the very Law Giver who lives by his own moral law and gives forth moral law?

Sin is more than just selfish pride alone wanting one’s own autonomy it involves warping, twisting, being used knowingly or unknowingly for these purposes to overthrow God’s rule with another’s rule (note Isaiah 14:13-17c).

What tactics would a being use to spread rebellion which seeks to exalt self above the LORD God’s own throne (rule – dominion). You cannot kill a spiritual being – how would you therefore exalt self godhood above LORD God’s?
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[PaulSacramento]

The only way to "kill God" is to declare God dead and to say that we don't need God, there never was a God and that it all bold down to US and there is nothing beyond Us.
We can't need something that doesn't exist, right?