Does Christianity derive from innately selfish orgins???

[Anonymous]

New topic... (have so many more to come due to immense pool of questions in head over Christianity-- bear with me.)

If a person feigns (within their minds of course) a religious being- that is they assume the "righteous" life and do all of the repentance, acceptance of Jesus, yatta, yatta, yatta- however deep, deep, down, as most human beings do, they are truly selfish in doing it because they are ultimately afraid of eternal damnation to the Inferno, and so they accept religion as a sort of, security blanket, then won't they be banned to hell anyhow? I mean, if a person thinks they are religious and is believing in God because they "love" him, but deep down it all truly stems from their subconscious desire to not be probed by horned little Lucifers, won't they be damned anyhow? Because it wasn't their ultimate love of God that did it, but their own personal inner feelings of fear? I mean honestly, I want to know how many people would continue doing all of the suppression of desires, worry over actions and sins, if all of the sudden Jesus came down and said, "Hey, all of you, heaven will be open to everyone from now on, but try to be good." Fear of damnation is eliminated= no more fear= no more necessity to be good all the time= eh, who gives a ?

If there didn't exist a competition and personal worry to get into heaven, then no one would be religious, which kind of exemplifies how religion is innately selfish, egocentric and existing only because people are scared crazy over not being eternally rewarded???



I think this topic is all so mushed and disorginized- maybe because I am tired and reading with one eye due to contact lens... Anyhow, I think next time I'll construct a thesis and supporting paragraphs to formulate my thoughts into readable information. Please try to decipher and answer. gratzi!

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Does Christianity derive from innately selfish orgins???

No.

That is probably one of the things that leads people to Christ...don't want hell. But, it's interesting to know, there are people who consciously choose hell. It's very weird. And one of the arguments-no outside control. People would rather live like they want and go to hell for eternity than do what God knows is better.

I want to know how many people would continue doing all of the suppression of desires

You're working with the idea that God is some kind of a killjoy though. God doesn't want people miserable. Desires are supposed to be fulfilled in the right fashion. It's not bad to suppress them (never have sex or something), but it is bad to use them in the wrong way (out of wedlock, adultery, etc).

[Prodigal Son]

i think you're right. most people turn to God for selfish reasons...at first. but, in truly knowing Him, the selfishness is eradicated and replaced with love. fear is always an obstruction to love. it is God's love that relieves fear and allows US to finally, truly love and be liberated. trust me, if you don't know God, you don't really know how to love.

remember, doing good things doesn't make a person good. i've done many good things before always with ulterior motives. the key is doing good and not wanting/needing/expecting anything back--doing good at the right time, for the right reasons, and in the right way. i suppose it gets pretty tricky.

[Kurieuo]

Your post is extremely complex for within are a lot of your own preconceptions and ideas of Christian theology. For example, what is "hell"?

I find it pretty atonishing when people say people can just accept Christ as a security blanket and be saved. Such displays an inaccurate account of Christian theology, and what it means to "accept Christ." So you are right someone "feigning it" isn't really saved.

I also find it revealing that many charity organisations and so forth are often Christian. Such seems to go against the selfish argument that Christians only accept Christ to escape "eternal damnation to the Inferno," being "banned to hell," being "probed by horned little Lucifers," and so forth... Such Christians also display the true meaning of what it means to accept Christ by following Him.

Kurieuo.

[The edge]

I share the same Q as u did & still do.

I do know that a lot of people had come to Christ for the sake of that ticket to heaven. Like I said in another thread, there's a diff between calling Christ Saviour vs calling Him Lord.
I'm sure that the latter are saved but I can't be sure about the former.
Could one really call Christ his savior without being repentant & understanding that Christ righteousness is the only answer?

Ur Q is very much the subject in the book of Job. Do we love God for nothing? I've asked a would be Pastor if he would continue believing in God & serving him if he knows he's destine for hell. I'm glad that his answer was to the effect of "Yes, as we're all deserving of hell". I hope it was from his heart.
For myself, once I came to the conclusion that I'm a vessel created by the Porter, I decided to stop tagging my final destination to my responsibility of obedience as I've no right to bargain my place to anywhere. I do trust tho that God will be merciful to me.

[voicingmaster]

There a few people(like me, I used to be a Pagan, but that's all in the past now) who converted to Christianity out of fear of hell. But, even though we went for a "selfish" purpose, we aren't staying simply b/c of selfishness, and we don't remain selfish people. It's just what kinda "shocks" you into it. The fear of hell is the jolt that starts the engine, the love of God is what keeps the engine running smoothly.

However, it should be important to note that not all people convert out of fear. Most do it b/c of the love of God.

[The edge]

My fren just gave me some good nuggets.

The diff between Christianity & other religion is that other religion talks about me.

How can I be bless
How can I attain a better afterlife / be saved.
What can my god do for me
What must I do so that I'm in a safer hand.

I take back the above underlined statements. It's really narrowlly constructed. Apologies - 16 Apri 05



Real Christianity force us to shift the focus away from ourselves.
What are your needs
How would God be please
What contribution should I make in order that you may end up in the right side of eternity
What are the ways to repay God's mercy & grace.

It require a selfless person to be a good Christian

[Anonymous]

I think IF jesus comes back he will come down off his clouds and say "ohhh nooo." and take no one with him to "heaven" even christians because you are all judgemental apon almost anyone who isn't christian. I do believe Jesus said "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"

[Kurieuo]

So it is alright for you to judge then?

Kurieuo.

[Dan]

I think IF jesus comes back he will come down off his clouds and say "ohhh nooo." and take no one with him to "heaven" even christians because you are all judgemental apon almost anyone who isn't christian. I do believe Jesus said "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"

Actually, Jesus said:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

He didn't say not to judge, he said to not judge others and not apply the same standard to us. Try actually reading the Bible

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

TO all ye who preach tolerance, you airheaded hypocrites, tolerate my intolerance! Tolerance is stupid. It'd tacit consent. It's not caring. If I see someone being immoral, should I let him continue? Only if I didn't care. Because I care, though, I would be intolerant and say what he's doing is wrong. Tolerance is a crock, thank you, goodbye.

[Anonymous]

Well i didn't say Jesus would take me to this "heaven"
i didn't say that i was good enough. There is no proof that jesus will even come back. He wont because he was a man and he DIED. and the kingdom of heaven he was talking about wasn't the one about a city of clouds with gates. I know jesus said " the kingdom of heaven is within."
But you won't understand It

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

And your proof? There are eyewitnesses that reported seeing Jesus after He died...eyewitness reports mean nothing? And Jesus never said heaven was within, you can't twist any Bible verse enough to get that! Squeeze a lemon all you want, but you're not getting kool-aid!

[Anonymous]

There are eyewitnesses that reported seeing Jesus after He died...eyewitness reports mean nothing?

Did you ever think storys and facts change over years its been 2000 years. plus 2 of jesus's apostles never wrote in the bible of a resurrection. but where added in after their deaths 200 years later. even if he didn't die he would have died later as a older man. when he left the country.

And Jesus never said heaven was within, you can't twist any Bible verse enough to get that!

Actually its in the the James version of the bible. i guess they took it out of the other bibles because no priest knew what it meant and didn't want people asking questions about it.

[ongelovige]

TO all ye who preach tolerance, you airheaded hypocrites, tolerate my intolerance! Tolerance is stupid. It'd tacit consent. It's not caring. If I see someone being immoral, should I let him continue? Only if I didn't care. Because I care, though, I would be intolerant and say what he's doing is wrong. Tolerance is a crock, thank you, goodbye.

AKMS, didn't you read Dan's text? Straigth scripture text? What you call immoral is but a speck of immorality in the eyes of the Lord compared to your arrogance of thinking that you can judge morality at all! It is the Lord who will judge - not you.