Re: How could I ever disappoint God?

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:24 pm

Since God knows beforehand my every move and action, how could I ever displease him? Even if God knows beforehand that he will be disappointed with an action I take, he is still aware of this, and I can hardly surprise him. So God would expect nothing of me other than what he already knows is to come. This would appear to be another example of the wonderful freedom we are given by our gracious God. Any thoughts here?

kmr · Post by **kmr** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:59 pm

Well, for instance, if you were a father and you knew beforehand that your son was planning to sneak out at night to go party, wouldn't you still get disappointed when he actually did it and you caught him? Also, God is infinite in his transcendence of time, so he doesn't proceed along the same time stream as us... he is in all time, so he would "know beforehand" and be disappointed but they really wouldn't have any need to be distinguished, as they are both from the same general area of concern.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:49 am

kmr wrote:Well, for instance, if you were a father and you knew beforehand that your son was planning to sneak out at night to go party, wouldn't you still get disappointed when he actually did it and you caught him? Also, God is infinite in his transcendence of time, so he doesn't proceed along the same time stream as us... he is in all time, so he would "know beforehand" and be disappointed but they really wouldn't have any need to be distinguished, as they are both from the same general area of concern.

While I am not denying God's being disappointed, I can only see this being 'real' disappointment if he chooses to suppress (put to the back of his mind) his knowledge of my actions and take them as they come. But if God takes an active interest in my life, then this surely would not be the case.

Canuckster1127 · Post by **Canuckster1127** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:23 am

Much of this goes to understand the nature of God and so there are going to be mysteries and seeming contradictions in places because we don't and we can't completely understand God.

However, God's first and foremost view of us is to love us. Particularly if we're under the lordship of Christ, then anything that would disappoint God about us is no longer there. There's no shame, no guilt and God looks at us without condemnation or disappointment. Sadly, though, we're often disappointed in ourselves and others and we reflect that back upon God and listen to that instead of what God reveals to us about us and how He feels about us.

Trying to figure out how God experiences our lives and interaction with him, again is a mystery. We're finite. We're limited to time as a linear continuum and we experience only the present (although we may often, unsuccessfully try to live in the past or the future as a means of avoiding the present as well.). Suggesting that God suppresses or chooses not to know about our futures so that he can experience our present with us and in that way be surprised is an interesting exercise in thought (and in some cases maybe a helpful one from our perspective) but again it tries to understand God through our perspective and experience and althouth we are made in the image of God, we are not all that God is.

Perhaps the best way to look and understand it is to trust God's character and nature in that He created us and then too, He has entered into our experience in the person of God the Son, Jesus Christ. Phil 2:5-11 speak to the fact that Jesus set aside many things to become like us. He emptied himself of many things that were his due, voluntarily to He could be in effect the second Adam and identify with us in every needed way.

I think we'd be surprised if we truly understood how God looks at us and feels about it. Many of us, I think, are afraid at times to accept how much God loves us and others and we instead try to make him out to be just another human who is not divine in all the depths of His Love for us.

One of the most meaningful things I've ever done and which I return to when I need to is to read I Cor 13 (the Love Chapter) and where Love is the Subject of a phrase or sentence, I instead insert the name God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, and ask myself if I really believe that God is Love, just as Jesus told us. When I do that, I rarely walk away without a new sense of awe and gratitude for how much He loves me.

neo-x · Post by **neo-x** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:18 am

Hmm.. I do not think God knows what will happen per second, if he did then any thing that might happen is subject to pre-destination. It goes against free will.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:39 pm

Bart,

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I only mentioned God "suppressing" his knowledge in order to make my point. I'm of the view that God doesn't do this. Hence I believe that God doesn't get disappointed or angry with us. We are his children, and his love knows no bounds. And I think the liberation this gives us to love and worship HIM free from worry of an imaginary disciplinarian is yet further testament to his amazing graciousness

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:57 pm

neo-x wrote:I do not think God knows what will happen per second, if he did then any thing that might happen is subject to pre-destination. It goes against free will.

Neo, I don't see how God's foreknowledge of our every move would negate our free will.

neo-x · Post by **neo-x** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:29 pm

Danny, my implication was that if he knew than in his knowledge it is already going to happen. And not just our immediate actions but their consequences and in turn their consequences, so on and so forth. If he knows already what we are going to choose 50 yrs from now, means it has been predestined. Therefore for e.g if he knows that 10 years from now I am going to turn to another religion. Would he still love me now? May be yes, may be no, if yes, then it means he is trying to show me love so that 10 yrs from now, I do not perish into a spiritual death. But if the first thing is true, then he would also know already whether by his showing me love now, will he save me 10 yrs from now. If he knows both things before hand than free will is an illusion and God's action is based on "he will or will not do this" instead of "he did this" , you see my point, this does not give me any margin to turn because my every turn (with its consequence) is acknowledged.

B. W. · Post by **B. W.** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:32 pm

neo-x wrote:Hmm.. I do not think God knows what will happen per second, if he did then any thing that might happen is subject to pre-destination. It goes against free will.

Actually, Neo, this statement does not square with who God is according to his character and nature revealed with the pages of the bible.
For example, just a few.

Proverbs 15:3, Psalms 139:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 13, 14, 15, 16c, Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 40:13, 14c, also all of Psalms 104

Anyways, I have been reading this thread and it is a very good one!
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neo-x · Post by **neo-x** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:48 pm

I understand your point B.W. I am certainly not saying that God doesn't know the future. Just saying that our outcomes may not be definitive, that is the only problem I have understanding it. Other than that, prophecy and future events are definitely by God, I am not denying it. It is true and real and part of the nature of God. I agree completely on that.

Edit:
And thank you for the verses.

kmr · Post by **kmr** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Well, when Christ died on the cross, he suffered the pains of ALL sin, right? He took the burden of everyone's sin, past, present, and future, in what we perceived as one moment. Clearly he was disappointed at the sin, but the main reason was out of love, so the time and place of the disappointment doesn't matter. If it says somewhere in the Bible, "God was disappointed", it is related to that specific action not that specific time. That is the point of the crucifixion.

kmr · Post by **kmr** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:18 pm

What I am saying is that the bulk of human disappointment is in the moment, caught up in the time and passing away slowly. But, perhaps, for God disappointment is not about time, but about justification.

neo-x · Post by **neo-x** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:28 pm

I would say, that if when Christ died for all our sins, in my pov it means, whatever sins, it doesn't have to be specific.

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:22 am

THose who believe God knows the future is prescribing to the B Theory of Time - Where all time, past present and future exist already and our location in this stream is an illusion - like many slices of cake. This is what many of the time travelling stories are based on. However this comes with many problems.

I personally beleive that the A theory of time is the correct view and that the only thing that exists is the present. Therefore God can not see the future as it does not exist yet. However I am certain he can predict the future with 100% certainty. Since he knows us so imtimately and therefore the outcome of all our choices I do believe he is still disappointed when we go down one path rather than the other. It is like he knows where the path leads and what will happen down it every step of the way - yet the choice to walk down it is still ours and therefore I am sure he is disappointed when we walk down it and not the one he has chosen for us.

Silvertusk.

kmr · Post by **kmr** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:25 am

Well, I suppose it depends on whether you believe God created time, or resides within time.