1 Corinthians 9:20: Paul said he was not under the law?

[Christian2]

1 Corinthians 9:20
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

I know it is very important to understand Paul and we must know who he is speaking -- Gentiles or Jews -- to in order to understand what he is saying.

But, I always thought that Paul remained a Torah observant Jew all of his life. What did Paul mean when he said "I am not under the law?" What "law" is he speaking of here?

Thank you.

[B. W.]

Matthew Henry Concise Commentary quote below gives this reason which is fitting to help answer your question:

1 Corinthians 9:15-23

It is the glory of a minister to deny himself, that he may serve Christ and save souls. But when a minister gives up his right for the sake of the gospel, he does more than his charge and office demands. By preaching the gospel, freely, the apostle showed that he acted from principles of zeal and love, and thus enjoyed much comfort and hope in his soul. And though he looked on the ceremonial law as a yoke taken off by Christ, yet he submitted to it, that he might work upon the Jews, do away their prejudices, prevail with them to hear the gospel, and win them over to Christ. Though he would transgress no laws of Christ, to please any man, yet he would accommodate himself to all men, where he might do it lawfully, to gain some. Doing good was the study and business of his life; and, that he might reach this end, he did not stand on privileges. We must carefully watch against extremes, and against relying on any thing but trust in Christ alone. We must not allow errors or faults, so as to hurt others, or disgrace the gospel.

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[Christian2]

B.W.

I appreciate your response. I've read many commentaries on this verse, including the one you cited.

I'm still studying it.

[Canuckster1127]

There was a strong differentiation in the early church between those who were Jewish and those who were Gentile. "The Way" of following Jesus wasn't seen as separate from Judaism as a whole, but with the addition of Gentile believers there was a great controversy as to whether they needed to become Jewish by being circumcised, following Jewish dietary laws and following Jewish feasts and temple sacrifices.

Paul was the primary apostle and missionary to the Gentiles having been sent out by the Church at Antioch (a Gentile community). Paul made it his practice while with Gentile communities or converts to act in accordance with their freedom from these things and when he was with Jewish communities he followed their practices without making a big show of his freedom.

Paul was adamant however about not imposing Jewish custom and law upon the gentiles. Galatians is actually a letter Paul sent back to the Galatians in response to their questions and accusations to Paul, after he left and a party of Judaizers came behind him and taught them that Paul was wrong and they needed to do these things.

When you read the NT and especially the letters of Paul, understanding this and putting things into context it helps a great deal to make sense of much of the argument of those days, which continue today about the relationship between Grace and Law. Paul focused on grace because he wrote and ministered primarily to Gentiles and they were free from many of these things (see Acts 15 and the council of Jerusalem.) James the brother of Jesus and Peter and most of the other apostles remained in the context of Jewish believers and weren't so concerned about departing from many contexts of Jewish law and "works" (in many cases this referred to the Jewish laws and traditions, not just good works in general.)

When you understand that, the conflict between law and grace which is usually characterized by people appealing to either the book of James (a Jewish leader to Jewish believers) or Paul (a Jewish Leader to Gentile believers) is less problematic.

Paul's letter to Corinth was to gentile believers primarily and the Corinthian letter her was explaining his practice in this regard.

This was before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. When that happened and the Temple was destroyed (the center of the law) then Paul's view and practice dominated because much of the argument and differences in practice became moot. This is too what helped to make Christianity in practice separate from Judaism.

Maybe more than you wanted to know, but that's how I understand a lot of this.

[zacchaeus]

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

The Jews have studied the torah, began walking out the torah, and added to it all the oral law adding a bondage that was impossible for anyone to keep. 1) What does the written Word say pointing to Messiah and how He fulfilled the written law. 2) Come to the gentiles who never heard of the torah, couldn't use the torah to point to the Messiah 3) The Word was God and when God gave us commands if we broke them, being transgressing the law is sin, sin equals death. Those without the law will parish with out the law, guilty as charged. They kept this for its written in their minds and hearts showing evidence of God grace in their lives.

Romans 2 (New Test) Vs.
"1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. "

Deuteronomy 30 (Old Test)
"1And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. 9And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: 10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

Lets be free from sin... sin is transgression against the law, keep the law, be free from sin, keep Gods commands, Paul kept the torah and the law and never did away with it, contrary to the new testament church's today...

Numbers 15:22-36
Leviticus 5:17
Psalms 119:45
James 2:11
Romans 6:15-23
I Corinthians 7:22
1 John 3:4
Exodus 15:26
Hebrews 11:1-3 and 6
Deut 6:25
Gen 3:1
Rom 1:1

[Canuckster1127]

Unless you're Jewish the point is moot.

Further, Paul patently did not keep the Torah and the Law consistently following his conversion choosing only to keep it where it was necessary in Jewish Communities to keep from causing offense.

Paul speaks of the Law in two senses primarily in the NT. First he speaks of it as in effect until the coming of John the Baptist and speaks of it's role to demonstrate to us our inability to meet the perfect standards of God and our need for a savior. Following the acceptance of Christ the role of the law is fulfilled. Paul clearly advocated that Gentiles had not obligation to the Law. He continually was in conflict with a party of Judiazers who followed him to communities he ministered in and they questioned his authority, his apostleship and told the gentiles they had to be circumcised, keep kosher, observe the sabbath and the feasts.

The Judiazers are still around today. Their arguments haven't changed all that much except that at least in Paul's day they were not able to pervert NT, they simply appealed to the OT which they wished to remain under.

Read the whole book of Galatians in one sitting (it's not that long.) Paul is responding to this and you have to pretty much be willfully ignorant to imagine that Paul is advocating law keeping.

Gal 5: 7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Not very ambiguous, is it?

[zacchaeus]

Okay, Brother... this is what I have. Please understand this is not for us to agree but to only show you "scripture" and then let you decide for yourself? I'm posting scripture! However, I'm open minded and I go with an open mind ready to learn and that I might be wrong. Hope you hold the same position. Thanks.

Isaiah 28:9-13
“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.”

Remember the serpent in the garden of eden said, “has God really said“. Your whole argument is we don’t have to do that anymore. Got to ask the question is that not the enemy in your soul seeking to kill and destroy.

If you write a letter to your best friend about things you did in your childhood that only you and him would know, and someone else reads the letter will they try and understand it without understanding its purpose.

Why did Paul write the letter to the assembly at Galatia (having Jewish council), what reason did he respond with this letter?

Paul was trained under Gama lea, having (required) to quote the torah orally… in which case he could. Knowing it, having it, in his mind and written on the tablets of his heart.

Acts 21:20-24
“And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.”

Read Acts 15

Are we supposed to be transformed into the image of Messiah; did He sin? That should settle it right there. The garment of salvation is absolutely free, the garment of righteousness will cost you everything. Many confuse the two and don’t understand and don’t want to be obedient or follow what scripture says. If Paul only kept or was forced to keep some of the laws at is choosing then he was two-faced, not a man of God, or someone I would want to follow or believe. I vehemently disagree with that stance.

1 Corinth 11:1
“Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.”

Are you not saying the same thing just like the false witnesses did to Stephen
Acts 6:11-14
“Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.”

They set up, key word, false witnesses!!! What was the accusation? Lying about blaspheming words against their holy place, and the “law” and that Jesus will destroy and change the customs of Moses. Really… and they did this by “perverting doctrines” and stating their “own interferences/own understanding”, as to what he had actually maintained - the common way in which people oppose doctrines from which they differ.

Hebrews 10: 26-29
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” hmmm, Really?

To what then are you or we grafted into? Romans 11, we are grafted into the House of Israel.

Leviticus 22:31-33
“Therefore shall ye keep my commandments, and do them: I am the LORD.
Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the LORD which hallow you, That brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD.” He is the LORD, not us…

Ezekiel 36:21-23
“But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.”

2 Corinth 6:14-15
“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?”

I express my faith because the Messiah was the torah/word made flesh, and because He is the torah made flesh I’m supposed to be conformed to His image, so I study my self approved renewing my mind to do so. If I didn’t believe He was the word made flesh or conformed into His image, than I would reject the commandments.

I can tell which God you worship by the commandments you desire to keep. Its all about love, didn’t Jesus say its about how you love The Father and your neighbor as yourself. God is love, why would we want to reject love, only the serpent would want to.

Proverbs 6:23
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:”

What is wickedness
Psalm 119:53
“Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.”

Romans 8:7-10
“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”

1 John 2:1-7
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”

Its no new commandment but an old commandment that we have had from the beginning and the old commandment is what? Word. Didn’t the Word become flesh, and cannot the Word go against Himself, and wait, He didn’t come to destroy but to fulfill, which we couldn’t on our own for we do fall short; which is why we need a Savior, a Messiah. But we have the power of the Holy Spirit in which we can keep the law/torah, because God wouldn’t create something that was impossible in which Paul says “God forbid”.
Did new testament exist when John wrote this…?

John 4:22
“Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.”

You should be able to define torah, law, light, sin, wickedness, righteousness, unrighteousness, salvation, etc.

Last thought, The Jewish people added so much to the law just so they wouldn’t break the actual law… sounds like new testament church to me. We will do whatever we can do so that we don’t have to keep any commands. That my friend is what Paul steadfast rejecting, the twisting of the scripture, and the oral law traditions that were added by man. Covenant relationship is established first before God will require any commandments look at Abram God didn’t call him to be circumcised until after 29 years. Gen 15:6 believed in the Lord accounted for as righteousness Gen 17:1 he is 99yrs old in verse 10 he was instructed by God to be circumcised.

Just Scripture… man

[Canuckster1127]

Zacheeus,

I hope you'll appreciate that this response is matching your tone and if you find it unpalatable, with all respect, I'm assuming you wish to be addressed in the same manner you address others.

"Just Scripture ..."

You're kidding yourself. You certainly have incorporated scriptural passages that you've jumped all over the Bible to find and to arrange in a manner that draws conclusions logically but denies the strong themes of Christ's person and teaching, making the Old Testament the lens by which you view the New Testament instead of making Christ and the New Testament the lens by which you understand the OT.

Paul wrote the letter of Galatians (probably the first epistle written) for the following reasons.

1. Paul wrote the letter a few months after he had been in Galatia. Galatia was the first church that Paul planted under the missionary trip he was sponsored to take with Barnabus. Following Paul's ministry there, there appeared on the scene a group of Jewish leaders who addressed and sought to convert Paul's gentile converts to the law and it's keeping. (Remarkably similar by the way to what you're doing here.)

2. They told these gentile Christians that Paul was a false teacher.

3. They told them that they needed to be circumcised (a requirement of the law and entrance into the Abrahamic covenant) and begin keeping the law in matters such as keeping kosher, observing the feasts of the OT etc. They told these believers that Paul was not an original apostle and that James the brother of Jesus was the head of the Jerusalem Church which was the true church, not Antioch.

4. They told them Paul preached an incomplete gospel.

5. They told them that Paul was in conflict with Peter and that Peter was right to have returned (as he had at that time) to have returned to his practice of keeping separate from the gentiles in his associations and eating (contrary to Christ's direct revelation to him in Acts 10.)

Paul's letter to the Galatians was in response to a communication of the Galatians to Paul in effect asking him about these charges of the Jewish legalists who had appeared and were charging Paul with an incomplete gospel.

The Jerusalem Council came after this as a direct result of Paul's bringing the matter to James and the Jerusalem church and his appeal to the other apostles to gather and as a body address these matters. Anyone reading Acts 15 should understand that and understand that this was the culmination of this conflict, although it was by no means the end as it continued in parts until AD 70 when the temple was destroyed, rendering much of the issue moot and the gentiles came to outnumber the Jewish believers and the Jerusalem council decisions to be the majority position.

Anyone reading through an epistle by Paul will have a hard time elevating the law to it’s former status as taskmaster and overseer. Paul began most every epistle and ended it with the same greeting, “Grace and Peace.” It was uniquely Christian in the sense that it set apart the traditional greeting of Judaism, Shalom, and recognized Grace as foundational to that relationship.

What I’m writing here is simply the truth that can be read in any epistle of Paul by sitting down and reading it from start to finish. You claim “just Scripture” and then jump all over the place constructing thoughts and patterns that use scripture but all it’s doing is playing a tune and making the scripture dance a jig to the tune you’re playing.

I’m glad to admit that I can do that same thing. We all can. If you want to claim “just scripture” then find a broad passage of scripture that makes your point, and allow Scripture to build its own case. Focus on Christ and the NT and view the OT and Scripture through that lens. Then I’ll give that appeal more credence.

That's my best understanding of it anyway.

People can go through my threads and know who I am, my background and the basis of my beliefs.

How about you Zach? Where are you coming from?

[jlay]

Bravo Bart!!

[secretfire6]

i studied part of Galations for the first time about 2 weeks ago. I didnt read the whole thing, but did read the verses in question here and i instantly could tell Paul was defending himself from accusations that he had lied to his congregation. I could also tell that the accusations came from somwhere outside of that congregation and that since the issue of circumcision was brought up, it must have been unbelieving Jews.
many people think that 1st century Rome was the most horrible to early Christians, but in the pre Domitian times it was the unbelieving Jews who were responsible for the most persecution and murder of Christians. Rome occupied, policed and tried to maintain control. When the Jewish Temple rebelled, they were destroyed and disperesed. It was only after that, when Christianity grew, that it became the new "threat" to Rome.

[Christian2]

There was a strong differentiation in the early church between those who were Jewish and those who were Gentile. "The Way" of following Jesus wasn't seen as separate from Judaism as a whole, but with the addition of Gentile believers there was a great controversy as to whether they needed to become Jewish by being circumcised, following Jewish dietary laws and following Jewish feasts and temple sacrifices.

Paul was the primary apostle and missionary to the Gentiles having been sent out by the Church at Antioch (a Gentile community). Paul made it his practice while with Gentile communities or converts to act in accordance with their freedom from these things and when he was with Jewish communities he followed their practices without making a big show of his freedom.

Paul was adamant however about not imposing Jewish custom and law upon the gentiles. Galatians is actually a letter Paul sent back to the Galatians in response to their questions and accusations to Paul, after he left and a party of Judaizers came behind him and taught them that Paul was wrong and they needed to do these things.

When you read the NT and especially the letters of Paul, understanding this and putting things into context it helps a great deal to make sense of much of the argument of those days, which continue today about the relationship between Grace and Law. Paul focused on grace because he wrote and ministered primarily to Gentiles and they were free from many of these things (see Acts 15 and the council of Jerusalem.) James the brother of Jesus and Peter and most of the other apostles remained in the context of Jewish believers and weren't so concerned about departing from many contexts of Jewish law and "works" (in many cases this referred to the Jewish laws and traditions, not just good works in general.)

When you understand that, the conflict between law and grace which is usually characterized by people appealing to either the book of James (a Jewish leader to Jewish believers) or Paul (a Jewish Leader to Gentile believers) is less problematic.

Paul's letter to Corinth was to gentile believers primarily and the Corinthian letter her was explaining his practice in this regard.

This was before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. When that happened and the Temple was destroyed (the center of the law) then Paul's view and practice dominated because much of the argument and differences in practice became moot. This is too what helped to make Christianity in practice separate from Judaism.

Maybe more than you wanted to know, but that's how I understand a lot of this.

1 Corinthians 8 19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Bart, I think Paul may by saying -- "though I myself am not under the law" -- he meant that because he was a believer in Jesus and accepted God's gift at the cross -- he was no longer under the condemnation of the Law.

Interesting that later he said: "though I am NOT Free from God's law." Did he meant that he still followed the law? Perhaps, so.

Being under "Christ's law" would mean under grace because he is a believer.

I do not think Paul ever stopped following Jewish law.

[Christian2]

Read Acts 15

You appear to be a Messianic Jew who thinks Gentile Christians should follow all of the Jewish laws.

I think you should read Acts 15. Gentile believers are only to observe 4 things, in order to not offend the Jews they came in contact with.

However, that does not mean that Gentile believers do not have guidelines to lead a moral life pleasing to God as noted below.

Matthew 15: 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Paul: Ephesians 4:

17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Paul: Ephesians 5:

3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul: Galatians 5

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

[Byblos]

1 Corinthians 8 19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Bart, I think Paul may by saying -- "though I myself am not under the law" -- he meant that because he was a believer in Jesus and accepted God's gift at the cross -- he was no longer under the condemnation of the Law.

Interesting that later he said: "though I am NOT Free from God's law." Did he meant that he still followed the law? Perhaps, so.

Being under "Christ's law" would mean under grace because he is a believer.

I do not think Paul ever stopped following Jewish law.

IMO Paul is making a distinction between the mosaic law and God's law that is written on our hearts. He is saying he is free of the mosaic law, but no one can be free of God's law epitomized in the 10 commandments.

[Christian2]

IMO Paul is making a distinction between the mosaic law and God's law that is written on our hearts. He is saying he is free of the mosaic law, but no one can be free of God's law epitomized in the 10 commandments.

Thank you for your response.

[Canuckster1127]

Christian2, I don't know what Paul did in the privacy of his own practice, but the source verse you use indicates that Paul allowed Himself to be guided by the company he was with as to whether he observed some law. That fact by itself says that he did not keep the law as Jews of his day did. Remember those Judiazers Paul addresses in Galatians are the same ones who persuaded Peter to return to eating apart from Gentiles and keeping Kosher. Do you believe Paul would have rebuked Peter for this to his faith if Paul did the same thing?

Likewise, when Paul addresses the Colossians and tells them to allow no-one to judge them with regard to eating, drinking and observing sabbaths and festivals, does that mean that he then keeps them with the level of adherence that the Jewish Christians did? Again, he appears to see this as a non-issue.

Quick note to with regard to the outcome of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. The outcome of the council was the consensus of those present. Does that mean that it was a God ordained directive? Doesn't Paul later in his epistles even go so far as to place under grace those practices represented there? I would argue that the outcome of the Jerusalem council was the best wisdom of the group collectively, but not a directive from God. Just as the Apostles after the death of Judas used the traditional methods to select a replacement, whom we hear little of following as it appears Saul was God's choice as evidenced on the Damascus Road, the Bible accurately preserves the actions of the council but it doesn't mean that was God's directive. We have in most of the Epistles of Paul the fuller council of God, as well as in Hebrews. In the Epistle of James we have the perspective of a leader in the Jewish congregation and traditions. I don't believe there is a conflict between the two, but I do believe the perspective of the authors and the original audiences have to be accounted for in order to come up with a reconciliation of the positions present. Most arguments of Grace vs Works tend not to do this. They take the words of Paul and can present a case of antinomianism (something that Paul doesn't advocate) or they take the words of James and present a case for a works infused salvation which is not something that I believe James advocated.

Not always an easy task but if all Scripture is inspired then that reconciliation must be worked out and it requires more than just swinging the pendulum in one direction or the other and camping on the verses that can be used to support what a persons inclination leads them to favor.