Christian Genocide

[Murray]

The red terror in spain is another prime example of christians being persecuted by atheist

[dorkmaster]

I am however 100% certain in the soviet regime, more people were killed than the holocaust you just do not hear about it and that is what drives me insane.

[dorkmaster]

^This drives me near-insane also. I for one can't figure out why society just kind of ignores everything Russia has done i n the past.
I wish Eisenhower would've let Patton do what he wanted to do in 1946.

[kmr]

Well, at least they are mellowing out now. Let's all offer up some prayers to them, in hoping that such a tragedy never occurs again.

[Murray]

^

As long as militant athiesm exists, their will always be a threat of this happening again. They believe us to be a cancer, a awful curse to man kind, Most athiest believe religon is bad and the world would be better without us, take that one step further and you have a stalin.

[SnowDrops]

Soviet Russia wasn't directly about atheism. It was about purging culture and society to make way for communism or actually dictatorship. Religion was a part, a big part, but that wasn't the focus. The USSR was like a quarantine - most people didn't know what happened outside of it and were taught by the government that the lives they had were good in comparison. Basically, they purged all outside ideas, faith and hope to make way for communism. Because of this "quarantine", many people elsewhere didn't know the situation in the USSR. In fact, many people still don't get what happened and how it's affected Russia. In fact, there were many Russians who were against the USSR and it did a lot of harm to Russia so that it never really recovered from. People who did horrible things later seeped into government; someone actually said: "Try and find one Russian who does not have a criminal record - just one". Crime had become, to some extent, normal. And there's actually still a lot of corruption and deception within the government.

[neo-x]

Soviet Russia wasn't directly about atheism. It was about purging culture and society to make way for communism or actually dictatorship.

"Atheism is the core of the whole Soviet system." Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn,

Communism begins where atheism begins…” (Karl Marx)

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion” (Karl Marx)

“Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” (attributed to Vladimir I. Lenin)

“Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.” (V.I. Lenin)

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” (Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper)

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"The Party cannot be neutral toward Religion because Religion is something
opposite to Science." Stalin

"The Marxist worldview has a relationship to the Enlightenment. I think
that’s impossible to doubt." Christopher Hitchens

The World has never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” (Alexander Solzhenitsyn)

About the putative failing of atheism, Alexander Solzhenitsyn declared:
Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened." Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."

[Reactionary]

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” (Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper)

I think this is the most important quote you brought up. Kinda makes a person wonder whether those people were really atheists, or they declared war upon God.

"The Party cannot be neutral toward Religion because Religion is something
opposite to Science." Stalin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

[Noah1201]

So when atheists say that "most wars are caused by religion", honestly they're just talking out of something or other that I won't name. Absolutely no truth to it, and yet they proudly announce it wherever they go.

Can you show me where any public atheist preacher, ever, with the possible exception of Sam Harris, made the claim that most wars are caused by religion?

[Murray]

^ go look at any atheist website or look at any atheist blog or talk to any atheist and im 110% sure he bring up religon causing all wars.

[B. W.]

Soviet Russia wasn't directly about atheism. It was about purging culture and society to make way for communism or actually dictatorship.

"Atheism is the core of the whole Soviet system." Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn,

Communism begins where atheism begins…” (Karl Marx)

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion” (Karl Marx)

“Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” (attributed to Vladimir I. Lenin)

“Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.” (V.I. Lenin)

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” (Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper)

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"The Party cannot be neutral toward Religion because Religion is something
opposite to Science." Stalin

"The Marxist worldview has a relationship to the Enlightenment. I think
that’s impossible to doubt." Christopher Hitchens

The World has never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” (Alexander Solzhenitsyn)

About the putative failing of atheism, Alexander Solzhenitsyn declared:

Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened." Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."

Very Good quotes!
-
-
-

[SnowDrops]

Atheism was an inseparable part of communism, because it gave people Faith, Hope and a belief in something greater than the SSSR or a dictator. However, the SSSR was about power, not destroying religion. That was not it's most direct goal. Besides, destroying religion was just a part of destroying culture. It somewhat reminds me of what was done to Indians in America. Even speaking in other languages was mostly prohibited, celebrating certain holidays, including Christmas. It was an essential part though, rather than the main goal. If Stalin could use Christianity to gain power and promote Communism he would have done that instead.
The initial goal was not "destroy religion", it was "create a communistic world and gain power". Of course, the idea immediately and logically followed that you must destroy current ideology, loyalty and culture.

[B. W.]

Atheism was an inseparable part of communism, because it gave people Faith, Hope and a belief in something greater than the SSSR or a dictator. However, the SSSR was about power, not destroying religion. That was not it's most direct goal. Besides, destroying religion was just a part of destroying culture. It somewhat reminds me of what was done to Indians in America. Even speaking in other languages was mostly prohibited, celebrating certain holidays, including Christmas. It was an essential part though, rather than the main goal. If Stalin could use Christianity to gain power and promote Communism he would have done that instead.
The initial goal was not "destroy religion", it was "create a communistic world and gain power". Of course, the idea immediately and logically followed that you must destroy current ideology, loyalty and culture.

You just descibed the modern American Left and what the USA is heading for...
-
-
-

[SnowDrops]

Atheism was an inseparable part of communism, because it gave people Faith, Hope and a belief in something greater than the SSSR or a dictator. However, the SSSR was about power, not destroying religion. That was not it's most direct goal. Besides, destroying religion was just a part of destroying culture. It somewhat reminds me of what was done to Indians in America. Even speaking in other languages was mostly prohibited, celebrating certain holidays, including Christmas. It was an essential part though, rather than the main goal. If Stalin could use Christianity to gain power and promote Communism he would have done that instead.
The initial goal was not "destroy religion", it was "create a communistic world and gain power". Of course, the idea immediately and logically followed that you must destroy current ideology, loyalty and culture.

You just descibed the modern American Left and what the USA is heading for...
-
-
-

I sincerely doubt that America is even close to where the SSSR was. The modern lefts' goals... Maybe. The USA as a whole... That reeks of conspiracy theorists, who we really don't need. In the SSSR, you didn't need conspiracy theorists to tell you what was going on. Really, in the last 3 centuries Russia was always heading that way and it was fairly obvious to most people.

[B. W.]

Atheism was an inseparable part of communism, because it gave people Faith, Hope and a belief in something greater than the SSSR or a dictator. However, the SSSR was about power, not destroying religion. That was not it's most direct goal. Besides, destroying religion was just a part of destroying culture. It somewhat reminds me of what was done to Indians in America. Even speaking in other languages was mostly prohibited, celebrating certain holidays, including Christmas. It was an essential part though, rather than the main goal. If Stalin could use Christianity to gain power and promote Communism he would have done that instead.

The initial goal was not "destroy religion", it was "create a communistic world and gain power". Of course, the idea immediately and logically followed that you must destroy current ideology, loyalty and culture.

You just descibed the modern American Left and what the USA is heading for...-

I sincerely doubt that America is even close to where the SSSR was. The modern lefts' goals... Maybe. The USA as a whole... That reeks of conspiracy theorists, who we really don't need. In the SSSR, you didn't need conspiracy theorists to tell you what was going on. Really, in the last 3 centuries Russia was always heading that way and it was fairly obvious to most people.

Let's not forget the concept of a world wide Perestroika:

Perestroika means overcoming the stagnation process, breaking down the braking mechanism, creating a dependable and effective mechanism for acceleration of social and economic progress and giving it greater dynamism.

Perestroika means mass initiative. It is the conference of development of democracy, socialist self-government, encouragement of initiative and creative endeavor, improved water and disciplined, more glasnost, criticism and self-criticism in all spheres of our society. It is utmost respect for the individual and consideration for personal dignity.

Perestroika is the all-round intensification of the Soviet economy, the revival and development of the principles of democratic centralism in running the national economy, the universal introduction of economic methods, the renunciation of management by injunction and by administrative methods, and the overall encouragement of innovation and socialist enterprise.

Perestroika means a resolute shift to scientific methods, an ability to provide a solid scientific basis for every new initiative. It means the combination of the achievements of the scientific and technological revolution with a planned economy

Perestroika means priority development of the social sphere aimed at ever better satisfaction of the Soviet people's requirements for good living and working conditions, for good rest and recreation, education and health care. It means unceasing concern for cultural and spiritual wealth, for the culture of every individual and society as a whole.

Perestroika means the elimination from society of the distortions of socialist ethics, the consistent implementation of the principles of social justice. It means the unity of words and deeds, rights and duties. It is the elevation of honest, highly-qualified labor, the overcoming of leveling tendencies in pay and consumerism. . . .

I stress once again: perestroika is not some kind of illumination or revelation. To restructure our life means to understand the objective necessity for renovation and acceleration. And that necessity emerged in the heart of our society. The essence of perestroika lies in the fact that it unites socialism with democracy and revives the Leninist concept of socialist construction both in theory and in practice. Such is the essence of perestroika, which accounts for its genuine revolutionary spirit and its all-embracing scope.

The goal is worth the effort. And we are sure that are effort will be a worthy contribution to humanity's social progress.

[Source: Mikhail Gorbachev, Perestroika (New York: Harper Collins, 1987), quoted in Mark Kishlansky, ed., Sources of the West: Readings in Western Civilization, 4th ed., vol. 2 (New York: Longman, 2001), p. 322.]

As for comment concerning "reeks of conspiracy theorists" let's not forget what Saul Alinsky said to use as a potent form of dialectic process in which no one person controls but rather the idea prorogated by many to smoke screen from view the real conspirators for worldwide socialist gradualism change…

Rules for Radicals

By Saul Alinsky - 1971

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

Notes on Saul Alinsky and Neo-Marxism:

Alinsky's tactics were based, not on Stalin's revolutionary violence, but on the Neo-Marxist strategies of Antonio Gramsci, an Italian Communist. Relying on gradualism, infiltration and the dialectic process rather than a bloody revolution, Gramsci's transformational Marxism was so subtle that few even noticed the deliberate changes.

Like Alinsky, Mikhail Gorbachev followed Gramsci, not Lenin. In fact, Gramsci aroused Stalins's wrath by suggesting that Lenin's revolutionary plan wouldn't work in the West. Instead the primary assault would be on Biblical absolutes and Christian values, which must be crushed as a social force before the new face of Communism could rise and flourish. Malachi Martin gave us a progress report:

"By 1985, the influence of traditional Christian philosophy in the West was weak and negligible.... Gramsci's master strategy was now feasible. Humanly speaking, it was no longer too tall an order to strip large majorities of men and women in the West of those last vestiges that remained to them of Christianity's transcendent God."

From this link: http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm