Do you ever feel helpless against atheists?

[Mariolee]

I'm theistic evolutionists, so when people talk about evolution it doesn't bother me too much. Now, when people start taking evolution as "proof" that God doesn't exist, that's where I start getting a bit annoyed. It gets on my nerves when atheists or anyone basically, even other Christians, talk down to me.

First instance is with my friend who made fun of the Bible because he claimed it called him the Antichrist. He showed me the verse, I took a look at it, and told him that you have to observe the context of when this was written. I believe it was Paul who wrote it, and I told him that this was a time when Christians were being heavily persecuted, and so Paul was basically warning them to beware of people who are not Christian, for they are most likely antichrists which essentially means they are against Christ. Paul wasn't calling every single atheist or person of other religion THE Antichrist. That's absurd.

He simply laughed and said, "Haha ok whatever. It's fun arguing with you. C'mon, I've been in tons of bible classes, I know how to tead the Bible."

What.

"No, seriously listen to me, that's what this verse means!"
"Alright, haha, alright."
">:("

I didn't actually say anything about my frustration, as that would not help my cause out at all. :p

Second instance: Neogaf: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439107
This whole thread, and no one has mentioned how in "The Case for the Real Jesus", there was a chapter where Lee Strobel asks THIS SAME EXACT QUESTION, and the interviewee obliterated any similarity between them. The sad part is I can't even sign up to this, because it requires a paid-email address, and even if I did have one, it takes half a year for them to even let you join. I feel so helpless.

They just won't listen. At all. I just, how do you deal with this!?

[1over137]

He simply laughed and said, "Haha ok whatever. It's fun arguing with you. C'mon, I've been in tons of bible classes, I know how to tead the Bible."

If he is debating with you just because of fun, I would end the discussion with him.

The sad part is I can't even sign up to this, because it requires a paid-email address, and even if I did have one, it takes half a year for them to even let you join. I feel so helpless.

I would not look at that forum anymore, because you cannot include yourself in the discussion and it can bring you further sadness. Once I saw on some atheist forum a thread I wanted to include myself in, I registered, but till this day I cannot login. So, I stopped to look at that forum and found another one where I was allowed to join.
(To finish my story: My start was not very succesful. What I've got was laugh, and calling me an idiot. But it was partly my fault. I was banned. But I returned under the different name I wrote my post in completely different approach and was welcomed by others.)

[DannyM]

I'm theistic evolutionists, so when people talk about evolution it doesn't bother me too much. Now, when people start taking evolution as "proof" that God doesn't exist, that's where I start getting a bit annoyed. It gets on my nerves when atheists or anyone basically, even other Christians, talk down to me

Ask them to define Evolution and then to explain how it disproves God. Challenge their core assumptions. I’m rarely graceful but you should try to be graceful. (Do as I say, not as I do.) Don’t get bogged down with defending your worldview, since you might as well be speaking to them in tongues; examine their worldview and presuppositions on their own terms and show how vacuous it is in explaining things like ethics, consciousness, morality, logic, meaning, knowledge, altruism, etc. Don’t let them say “we adapted it…”, “we evolved into it…” since these are not explanations for it and are only obfuscations.

First instance is with my friend who made fun of the Bible because he claimed it called him the Antichrist. He showed me the verse, I took a look at it, and told him that you have to observe the context of when this was written. I believe it was Paul who wrote it, and I told him that this was a time when Christians were being heavily persecuted, and so Paul was basically warning them to beware of people who are not Christian, for they are most likely antichrists which essentially means they are against Christ. Paul wasn't calling every single atheist or person of other religion THE Antichrist. That's absurd.

He simply laughed and said, "Haha ok whatever. It's fun arguing with you. C'mon, I've been in tons of bible classes, I know how to tead the Bible."

"No, seriously listen to me, that's what this verse means!"

"Alright, haha, alright."

Paul was right and they are blind to the truth in the sense that they suppress the truth.

He’s your friend and he simply dismisses you with hand waving! Do you see how muddled his thinking is?

Try not to get wound up. Not easy I know but it's alot better for your blood pressure and you find yourself much happier and relaxed in these kind of debates if you can gently yet methodically probe the oppisition's position. God I wish I could follow my own advice.

[Jonouchi Katsuya]

I am going to tell you something that may change your life. (That I tell other Christians as well as Atheists who try to do the same thing!)

Do you like it when Atheists come here and try to convert you? If yes, then you must just like arguing with them right? Or are you genuinely interested in what they have to offer you? To them they are offering you freedom from the day in day out stresses of having to follow contradictory rules. To you they can only offer damnation in hell and such. But they really don't see it that way.

Atheists on the other hand... hate it when people try to convert them as well. They feel like you are trying to tie them down and write down in your little good deed book that you changed someone's mind. Well... crazy thing about mind changing is... it 1. Doesn't happen often and 2. Only those with an open mind... who are willing to listen to you even have a chance.

So why are you bothering with self professed Atheists? Try... people who feel they are just floating between religions. Agnostics MIGHT swing your direction though... you better watch your approach. They are typically not passionate people like you and passion will scare them off.

If you go to an Atheist with your passion... they will probably just think you are stupid for even trying and they will have a good laugh with their Atheists friends at your attempt. Just like I am sure you have a good laugh with your Christian pals (or pity party) about how dumb the Atheists are.

[DannyM]

Hi Katsuya

Do you like it when Atheists come here and try to convert you? If yes, then you must just like arguing with them right? Or are you genuinely interested in what they have to offer you? To them they are offering you freedom from the day in day out stresses of having to follow contradictory rules. To you they can only offer damnation in hell and such. But they really don't see it that way

Who is trying to convert anyone?

What does atheism "have to offer"?

What are these "contradictory rules" atheism is trying to "free" us from?

Atheists on the other hand... hate it when people try to convert them as well. They feel like you are trying to tie them down and write down in your little good deed book that you changed someone's mind. Well... crazy thing about mind changing is... it 1. Doesn't happen often and 2. Only those with an open mind... who are willing to listen to you even have a chance

I've never tried to convert an atheist; nor has anyone I know tried to convert an atheist. This would be a fruitless exercise.

Can you explain more about this "little good deed book" Christians have and fill in when they "convert" someone?

[1over137]

Just like I am sure you have a good laugh with your Christian pals (or pity party) about how dumb the Atheists are.

This forum is not about having fun and laugh about atheists.

[Mariolee]

I am going to tell you something that may change your life. (That I tell other Christians as well as Atheists who try to do the same thing!)

Do you like it when Atheists come here and try to convert you? If yes, then you must just like arguing with them right? Or are you genuinely interested in what they have to offer you? To them they are offering you freedom from the day in day out stresses of having to follow contradictory rules. To you they can only offer damnation in hell and such. But they really don't see it that way.

Atheists on the other hand... hate it when people try to convert them as well. They feel like you are trying to tie them down and write down in your little good deed book that you changed someone's mind. Well... crazy thing about mind changing is... it 1. Doesn't happen often and 2. Only those with an open mind... who are willing to listen to you even have a chance.

So why are you bothering with self professed Atheists? Try... people who feel they are just floating between religions. Agnostics MIGHT swing your direction though... you better watch your approach. They are typically not passionate people like you and passion will scare them off.

If you go to an Atheist with your passion... they will probably just think you are stupid for even trying and they will have a good laugh with their Atheists friends at your attempt. Just like I am sure you have a good laugh with your Christian pals (or pity party) about how dumb the Atheists are.

Nope. In both instances, it was the atheist that brought up something "wrong" about Christianity, and I merely wanted to defend it. You probably missed my post about converting people in the other thread:

I would say the best way to share the gospel with people is to simply live life as a Christian. They'll only accept what you say when they want you to say it. It's like Inception. If you simply live an awesome intelligent Christian life that isn't extremist, but is what Jesus wants you to do, you may have someone thinking "Maybe there IS something to this whole Christian thing."

Don't hate mongor, don't scream damnation, don't even say it calmly with them if they don't ask for your advice; just act the way Christ does: wise and polite.

But if you force your beliefs on them, they will simply laugh. Mostly because if you tell them about Jesus loving you like his sons or whatever, they don't believe in that stuff. It has the same power as you telling them unicorns are real but you just have to believe. How in the world do you expect them to believe in something they already don't believe in by forcing it down their throats?

Imagine a world where Christians LIVED LIKE CHRISTIANS. Imagine them going out into the world and helped people with terrible disease or poverty and simply spreading the love of Jesus, instead of spreading hate or abusing the church system for your own greed or even just having random sex like so many of my "Christian" friends. If Christians lived like Christians, there would be more atheists willing to accept their ideas.

But for now, atheists know too many hypocritical crazy Christians to believe that. If you can show them that you're not crazy, you're logical, you're wise, you're loving, and you're open minded (without saying you are), then they will listen.

It's nearly the exact same post as yours. We're on the same page, dude. :p

And no, I don't think Atheist are dumb. Some of them are the smartest people I've ever known, but what I don't like is that they think I'M dumb. IT's the condescending manner they give towards Christians that I'm fed up about.

[Jonouchi Katsuya]

That is pretty upsetting.
I think these Atheists need to mind their own in this case. Try to keep religion out of your conversations with these people. Find common ground. It creates peace between all.

Shouldn't be calling you stupid...

[Mariolee]

That is pretty upsetting.
I think these Atheists need to mind their own in this case. Try to keep religion out of your conversations with these people. Find common ground. It creates peace between all.

Shouldn't be calling you stupid...

Humans shouldn't do a ton of things. I forgive them, that's what Christianity is all about. Just annoyed, that's all. :p

[neo-x]

Katsuya, you would be surprised to know how many atheist converts I know. I frankly I was an atheist my self. so was the author if this website, I think some otehr members that you see around here are former atheists as well.

[neo-x]

This forum is not about having fun and laugh about atheists.

very true

[PaulSacramento]

I love debating and discussing religion with atheists that are intelligent and have at least SOME knowledge of religion, not just a few google searches under their belts.
One thing that must always be made clear with any debate about God is the difference between Evidence and Proof.
There may be no proof of God, but there is much evidence that can be viewed as evidence for God's existence.
Most atheists that are sincere and don't have ulteror motives of deep rooted hatred for religion, can be debated and one can learn quite a bit from them.

[1over137]

Katsuya, you would be surprised to know how many atheist converts I know. I frankly I was an atheist my self. so was the author if this website, I think some otehr members that you see around here are former atheists as well.

me including (for 25 years)

[MarcusOfLycia]

I am going to tell you something that may change your life. (That I tell other Christians as well as Atheists who try to do the same thing!)

Do you like it when Atheists come here and try to convert you? If yes, then you must just like arguing with them right? Or are you genuinely interested in what they have to offer you? To them they are offering you freedom from the day in day out stresses of having to follow contradictory rules. To you they can only offer damnation in hell and such. But they really don't see it that way.

Atheists on the other hand... hate it when people try to convert them as well. They feel like you are trying to tie them down and write down in your little good deed book that you changed someone's mind. Well... crazy thing about mind changing is... it 1. Doesn't happen often and 2. Only those with an open mind... who are willing to listen to you even have a chance.

So why are you bothering with self professed Atheists? Try... people who feel they are just floating between religions. Agnostics MIGHT swing your direction though... you better watch your approach. They are typically not passionate people like you and passion will scare them off.

If you go to an Atheist with your passion... they will probably just think you are stupid for even trying and they will have a good laugh with their Atheists friends at your attempt. Just like I am sure you have a good laugh with your Christian pals (or pity party) about how dumb the Atheists are.

Why am I bothered by 'self-professed atheists'? Because I think they're wrong! I don't hate them and I don't like pointlessly arguing with them! However, some arguing is perfectly acceptable. Isn't that exactly what you were doing with your post? Arguing comes from the word 'argue', as in 'argument', the fundamental statement of logic. Unless your post was devoid of logical inferences (it wasn't), you also have come to argue. One can argue without being malicious, thankfully, and you weren't.

You left out one critical thing that Christians believe is an element of why people might change their mind: God Himself acting on someone's heart. But I've found it actually doesn't help to have 'open-minded' people. Its the ones who admit they have a closed mind like everyone truly does that are easiest to argue/debate with civilly. If people were truly 'open-minded' and held no belief above any other, you'd never get anywhere. What's there to argue when they already hold your opinions (or so they say)?

Personally, I've never EVER laughed at atheists being 'dumb' as you call them. I've cried, complained, and sometimes become depressed over it. I've lost friends to a lifestyle that is as close to hell on earth as any I've ever seen, adopting 'atheism' as their religion of choice but truly worshiping themselves. Laughter was never an option in the emotions I could have felt, and it wouldn't be. I've heard all kinds of people say some pretty stupid things, regardless of belief, and I may have laughed at those particular things. But at people themselves and the beliefs they hold? I've never had that luxury.

[1over137]

Hey Josh. I'm glad you are on this forum. And thankful for speaking to me at my begginings here. (When you thought probably that I am an atheist.)