Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Question what scripture are you talking about? 100 years is a pretty specific data after the Flood!
The division in the days of Peleg!!!! The seperation of the spiritual from the physical was the key ingredient. Also at that time the languages were divided, as well, many believe, including me, as the continents! I believe it is Gen 10:25
You get all that from?
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
No Beta decay mean a stroger weak force which means that the electromagnetic force will also be strong. Electrons will clump to the nucleus causing bonds between elements to be impossible. This would turn the universe into a thick hydrogen soup. And no stars would form.
No, wrong!!! Your hypothosis leaves out the key added ingredient of the future and past, the spiritual.
[sarcasm]My apologies[/sarcasm], next time I'll include your hypothesis before conjuring up my own.
dad wrote:When this is combined with the physical, original perfection is attained. You base everything on the present physical only, and only here are the results valid, not in God' wonderful tommorow, or yesterday.
hmmmm, Wouldn't there need to be hyper decay, not a lack of decay, for the radioactive matter to appear as old as it does?
So what we have is hyper decay, rapid growth and hyper evolution. I guess alot happened in a day because everything was so much faster?
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
dad wrote:So, woman on the sixth day, fine with me. Makes sense, I always kind of wondered why all the animals got to have mates, but Adam had to wait so long! Great, God is cool after all.
I appreciate your honesty in correcting your previous thoughts. I think God is cool too, especially in that He would take the time to interact so personally with Adam and His creation rather than create everything instantly.
Kurieuo
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
BGoodForGoodSake wrote:...
hmmmm, Wouldn't there need to be hyper decay, not a lack of decay, for the radioactive matter to appear as old as it does?
No, not at all. Because the daughter elements we see were already there at the Peleg era split, but were not in the process of decay, but in another process. When the processs became one of decay, things worked the other way, so to speak. Knowing this, no appeance of age exists at all.
So what we have is hyper decay, rapid growth and hyper evolution. I guess alot happened in a day because everything was so much faster
No, no decay universally. In some cases, God may have had a form of radioactive change for some reason. like to have a power source. The way that the atoms worked then was so different, I really doubt that it was 'hot' fission as we might have today, but more of what we might call, cold fusion. Impossible in today's physical only world, at least to our knowledge so far. But with the spiritual, very possible. Clean infinite power. I think one such reactor may have been used to heat up one of the rivers flowing into Eden. That would be a nice touch to get them in the mood to be fruitful and multiply, a natural hot pool, or river! If you haven't heard of the spot I am thinking of, it is called Oklo, in Gabor.
Annyhow, in general, no decay, so cut the hyper decay stuff.
dad wrote:So, woman on the sixth day, fine with me. Makes sense, I always kind of wondered why all the animals got to have mates, but Adam had to wait so long! Great, God is cool after all.
I appreciate your honesty in correcting your previous thoughts. I think God is cool too, especially in that He would take the time to interact so personally with Adam and His creation rather than create everything instantly.
Kurieuo
Yes, why just wave a magic wand, when you can roll up your sleeves, and take a whole week, and get Personal!
Question what scripture are you talking about? 100 years is a pretty specific data after the Flood!
The division in the days of Peleg!!!! The seperation of the spiritual from the physical was the key ingredient. Also at that time the languages were divided, as well, many believe, including me, as the continents! I believe it is Gen 10:25
You get all that from?
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
...
Yes, it is interesting. Another aspect overlooked is the mysterious 120 year warning God Personally gave to man that something big would happen then. I, like many others always assumed it was the flood. That is why you may have heard some say that Noah took 120 years to build the ark. Actually we don't know how long it took. I always thought that was a long time. Too long. If we apply the warning to the universal split, where the seperation of the spiritual from the physical occured, we see the effect was far greater than the flood. The whole universe was affected. This we know, as we detect decay even in the distant stars. It also changed the earth incredibly. Lifespans, tree growth rates, gravity, light, almost everything! Having no gravity as we know it makes moving continents rapidly about that time also possible without much heat!!!!!
We notice that in the VERY verse before the warning something big was coming for man in 120 years, that that is where it says the sons of God married the earth girls! Indicating the split had not occured yet!
This means that the split came about 101 years after the flood. This left some 17 years possibly before the flood for Noah to build the ark!!!
Question what scripture are you talking about? 100 years is a pretty specific data after the Flood!
The division in the days of Peleg!!!! The seperation of the spiritual from the physical was the key ingredient. Also at that time the languages were divided, as well, many believe, including me, as the continents! I believe it is Gen 10:25
You get all that from?
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
...
Yes, it is interesting. Another aspect overlooked is the mysterious 120 year warning God Personally gave to man that something big would happen then. I, like many others always assumed it was the flood. That is why you may have heard some say that Noah took 120 years to build the ark. Actually we don't know how long it took. I always thought that was a long time. Too long. If we apply the warning to the universal split, where the seperation of the spiritual from the physical occured, we see the effect was far greater than the flood. The whole universe was affected. This we know, as we detect decay even in the distant stars. It also changed the earth incredibly. Lifespans, tree growth rates, gravity, light, almost everything! Having no gravity as we know it makes moving continents rapidly about that time also possible without much heat!!!!!
We notice that in the VERY verse before the warning something big was coming for man in 120 years, that that is where it says the sons of God married the earth girls! Indicating the split had not occured yet!
This means that the split came about 101 years after the flood. This left some 17 years possibly before the flood for Noah to build the ark!!!
The universal split? The separation of the Spiritual from the Physical? No Gravity? Moving continents without much heat? And all of this post creation? With no physical, measurable evidence?
This is gnosticism and goes way beyond YEC.
Let me guess. You believe Christ really didn't die on the cross either. The spiritual element that was the Christ left before he actually died, because the spiritual can never truly die .... only the physical .... right?
'Earth's division in the days of Peleg (Gen. 10:25) refers to catastrophic splitting of the continents.' Commentators both before and after Lyell and Darwin (including Calvin, Keil and Delitzsch, and Leupold) are almost unanimous that this passage refers to linguistic division at Babel and subsequent territorial division. We should always interpret Scripture with Scripture, and there's nothing else in Scripture to indicate that this referred to continental division. But only eight verses on (note that chapter and verse divisions were not inspired), the Bible states, 'Now the whole earth had one language and one speech' (Gen. 11:1), and as a result of their disobedience, 'the LORD confused the language of all the earth' (Gen. 11:9). This conclusively proves that the 'Earth' that was divided was the same Earth that spoke only one language, i.e. 'Earth' refers in this context to the people of the Earth, not Planet Earth.
Another major problem is the scientific consequences of such splitting—another global flood! This gives us the clue as to when the continents did move apart — during Noah's Flood — see below on plate tectonics.
This is a link to an academic paper dealing with the issue of Gen 10:25.
Seems reasonable to me. Of course what is being claimed here by Dad goes, way, way beyond anything being claimed academically by those cited in support of the plate tectonics issue.
The key to me in understanding where he is coming from is the focus on "separation" meaning not just accelerated Plate Tectonics but the whole spiritual separation from the the physical which of course is not even tied into the context of the passage.
That element, the more I look at it and have done some researching is just plain gnosticism.
I've found several threads on other boards with "Dad" involved in the same line of "thought" and argument. We're in for some obsessive/compulsive-like repetition and deflection, the likes of which are rarely seen in the realms of thinking and civilized people.
The universal split? The separation of the Spiritual from the Physical? No Gravity? Moving continents without much heat? And all of this post creation? With no physical, measurable evidence?
You could measure it, if you were able. You need the ability to detect the spiritual. Not only that, but the ability to detect the seperation of the spiritual from the physical or it's fingerprints in our far past! Don't blame me if science is strictly limited to the physical, and the present to boot!
This is gnosticism and goes way beyond YEC.
Let me guess. You believe Christ really didn't die on the cross either. The spiritual element that was the Christ left before he actually died, because the spiritual can never truly die .... only the physical .... right?
?? What nonsense is this? Of course Christ died in the flesh on the cross. He also rose again, and had His merged, eternal body! The same one He has as we speak. Both spiritual and physical. We also shall be like this one day. No, Christians cannot die, our body can and will though, it can die plenty. But look at Jesus, He was busy those days His body dies, till He got His new, ressurected one! He preached to the spirits in prison under the earth. No?
This is a link to an academic paper dealing with the issue of Gen 10:25.
Seems reasonable to me. Of course what is being claimed here by Dad goes, way, way beyond anything being claimed academically by those cited in support of the plate tectonics issue.
Not bad, your link outlines the 2 most popular things that men have thought the verse may mean. In some commentaries, though we do see that it is admitted we really don't know. Somewhat of a mystery. I agree with the 2 things mentioned as well, that at the time of the split, the tongues, and continents were divided. All a part of the big change that came about.
The key to me in understanding where he is coming from is the focus on "separation" meaning not just accelerated Plate Tectonics but the whole spiritual separation from the the physical which of course is not even tied into the context of the passage.
Actually it is. This came right about the right time from God's 120 year warning. No longer do we see the closeness physically of the spiritual as we did before that time. No sons of God marrying women. The spiritual is still very much in existance, and angels watch over us, and God answers prayer, and miracles happen all the time, etc etc. But since the split, these things are more of a localized intervention in the physical world of man, than some universal thing. The spiritual is seperate from our physical world at the moment. They can come here, but we really, are pretty limited to the physical plane.
You cannot say this division is not tied to the passage. Except in your opinion. Later we see that this physical heavens will pass away even. The new ones coming are very different. No sun burning out, decaying away. It is forever. It is the physical universe that is temporary, and that is all science knows so far! They try to measure all future and past with it. (the present natural only temporary universe). New Jerusalem and the new heavens are definitely not Physical Only!
That element, the more I look at it and have done some researching is just plain gnosticism.
Practice your word all you want, but it is born again bible interpretation, that agree with what science we have as well.
I've found several threads on other boards with "Dad" involved in the same line of "thought" and argument. We're in for some obsessive/compulsive-like repetition and deflection, the likes of which are rarely seen in the realms of thinking and civilized people.
Popcorn anyone?
Sticks and stones..... don't take the place of reasoned arguement. If you have a case make it, ..or not.
The universal split? The separation of the Spiritual from the Physical? No Gravity? Moving continents without much heat? And all of this post creation? With no physical, measurable evidence?
You could measure it, if you were able. You need the ability to detect the spiritual. Not only that, but the ability to detect the seperation of the spiritual from the physical or it's fingerprints in our far past! Don't blame me if science is strictly limited to the physical, and the present to boot!
This is gnosticism and goes way beyond YEC.
Let me guess. You believe Christ really didn't die on the cross either. The spiritual element that was the Christ left before he actually died, because the spiritual can never truly die .... only the physical .... right?
?? What nonsense is this? Of course Christ died in the flesh on the cross. He also rose again, and had His merged, eternal body! The same one He has as we speak. Both spiritual and physical. We also shall be like this one day. No, Christians cannot die, our body can and will though, it can die plenty. But look at Jesus, He was busy those days His body dies, till He got His new, ressurected one! He preached to the spirits in prison under the earth. No?
Not quite as bad as I suspected.
Whether you realize it or not though, the idea of separation that you are preaching here is part and parcel of gnosticism.
This is a link to an academic paper dealing with the issue of Gen 10:25.
Seems reasonable to me. Of course what is being claimed here by Dad goes, way, way beyond anything being claimed academically by those cited in support of the plate tectonics issue.
Not bad, your link outlines the 2 most popular things that men have thought the verse may mean. In some commentaries, though we do see that it is admitted we really don't know. Somewhat of a mystery. I agree with the 2 things mentioned as well, that at the time of the split, the tongues, and continents were divided. All a part of the big change that came about.
The key to me in understanding where he is coming from is the focus on "separation" meaning not just accelerated Plate Tectonics but the whole spiritual separation from the the physical which of course is not even tied into the context of the passage.
Actually it is. This came right about the right time from God's 120 year warning. No longer do we see the closeness physically of the spiritual as we did before that time. No sons of God marrying women. The spiritual is still very much in existance, and angels watch over us, and God answers prayer, and miracles happen all the time, etc etc. But since the split, these things are more of a localized intervention in the physical world of man, than some universal thing. The spiritual is seperate from our physical world at the moment. They can come here, but we really, are pretty limited to the physical plane.
You cannot say this division is not tied to the passage. Except in your opinion. Later we see that this physical heavens will pass away even. The new ones coming are very different. No sun burning out, decaying away. It is forever. It is the physical universe that is temporary, and that is all science knows so far! They try to measure all future and past with it. (the present natural only temporary universe). New Jerusalem and the new heavens are definitely not Physical Only!
That element, the more I look at it and have done some researching is just plain gnosticism.
Practice your word all you want, but it is born again bible interpretation, that agree with what science we have as well.
I've found several threads on other boards with "Dad" involved in the same line of "thought" and argument. We're in for some obsessive/compulsive-like repetition and deflection, the likes of which are rarely seen in the realms of thinking and civilized people.
Popcorn anyone?
Sticks and stones..... don't take the place of reasoned arguement. If you have a case make it, ..or not.
What have you offered by way of proof?
You repeat your assertion. That is not debate. That is concersation with a parrot, my friend.
You may not like the word, gnosticism; but it is the word that descrbes what you are trying to teach here. As to my credentials to offer that label, I am familiar with and have worked with the original manuscripts and translations of the Nag Hammadi library and am very familiar with gnosticism. Unfortunately, this old heresy has been around for a long time. It keeps coming back in different forms.
What you are preaching here is gnosticism and is a torturing of the text. You completely eliminate physical evidence from anything so you in effect remove yourself from any form of accountability and anyone's refutation is reduced to opinion, so why bother arguing with you? May as well argue physics with a hamster.
Apparently you've got it all figured out, you deny anything can refute you and all you do is cruise by, drop replies with multiple exclamation points and argue that nobody shows you any proof when you deny that any proof can exist for your own position.
‘Earth’s division in the days of Peleg (Gen. 10:25) refers to catastrophic splitting of the continents.’ Commentators both before and after Lyell and Darwin (including Calvin, Keil and Delitzsch, and Leupold) are almost unanimous that this passage refers to linguistic division at Babel and subsequent territorial division. We should always interpret Scripture with Scripture, and there’s nothing else in Scripture to indicate that this referred to continental division.
I think it refered to, as I said the split. Also around that time, I think that the continents seperated rapidly, and the tongues of course were divided. So I don't claim that the verse refers to the continental seperation mainly. Your point is moot.
But only eight verses on (note that chapter and verse divisions were not inspired), the Bible states, ‘Now the whole earth had one language and one speech’ (Gen. 11:1), and as a result of their disobedience, ‘the LORD confused the language of all the earth’ (Gen. 11:9). This conclusively proves that the ‘Earth’ that was divided was the same Earth that spoke only one language, i.e. ‘Earth’ refers in this context to the people of the Earth, not Planet Earth.
Of course the language was divided.
Another possible indication, by the way the spiritual realm was much closer at hand than today. They seemed to be actually trying to reach it!!! Sounds foolish today, but then was not today, it was pre split.
.Gen 11: 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven
Another interesting point is that we all used to speak the same tongue. If we look in the New testament, we see that, when the spiritual was added locally, to some apostles, everyone understood them in their own language!!!! This seems to be a trait of the spiritual. It makes sense then, at the seperation , languages were confounded as well, possibly!
Another major problem is the scientific consequences of such splitting—another global flood! This gives us the clue as to when the continents did move apart — during Noah’s Flood — see below on plate tectonics.
I said around the time of the split. This well could be the flood, I don't know. Remember, that we are only talking a century beween the two. Also, with no gravity as we know it, rapid seperation flooding may not have been a major factor if it did happen in the time of Peleg. But you may be right.
Canuckster1127 wrote:...
Whether you realize it or not though, the idea of separation that you are preaching here is part and parcel of gnosticism.
Why would I care if some use that word, whatever it means? Point is, it is bible supported. Also, science can say nothing against it, and it leaves the bible as true all along.
