Evidence for God from Science

Canuckster wrote:
No. I don't believe the Pro-Life issue enters in on this election for several reasons

What do you mean that the pro-life issue doesn't enter in on this election?

I also know better from working within it, that the deficit we've experienced is primarily not an issue of discretionary spending but a reduction in revenues because of the economic situation. None of Obama's budgets or Primary bills were passed.

So are you saying from your pov, that the deficit is more from a lack of tax revenue because of the bad economy, more than borrowing trillions from China? And, are you saying that Obama has had some good economic plans that the Republicans have shot down?

The abortion issue is an important one to me. It's not a single issue on which I vote however, and those who have done so for the past 32 years have accomplished very little while violating many other scriptural principles in my opinion.

While the abortion issue is probably the issue I feel strongest about, it certainly isn't the only issue.
Which scriptural issues are you saying that people who have voted against abortion, are violating?

This may help you to put things into perspective.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... ack-obama/

http://halfinten.org/uploads/support_fi ... 282%29.pdf

The Pro-life Conservative Republicans over the past 10 years have pursued 2 wars and put them on a credit card while giving tax cuts primarily to the wealthy and then seeking to take cuts out of the poor instead of dealing with military spending and refusing to allow any tax increases on those same rich whose cuts were justified in part because they were job-creators.

The answers being offered are that the poor who are eating the scraps that fall from the rich's table would benefit by giving the rich bigger meals.

I'm pro-life. I support pro-life organizations to provide assistance where they can. I care about all of life. I care about children in the womb. I care about children after they are born and need to be fed, clothed and educated. I care about immigrants, legal and illegal who are faced with their families being torn apart. I care about the life of soldiers in our military who die in recent wars, one of which was started on false premises. I care about the civilians in other nations killed by our bombs and drones. I care about the lives of the over 40 million people in this country who have been without health insurance, many of them children.

I've been Republican in the past and voted Republican. I cared at that time that they were pro-life and I've seen that issue floated for the last 32 years and nothing substantive done about it while many who proclaim Christian values vote for them and allow the poor to be marginalized contrary to the values of Christ. Now I look at all of the issues and weigh them in terms of the positions of the candidate, the parties, the platforms and what I realistically think can be accomplished at this given point and time.

So, no. I make no apology for voting for Obama. It wasn't a "mistake." It was the decision I came to and I made it with my eyes wide open.

Stygian wrote:I take it you're against secession, then? Why? If may I ask.

Actually, I'll ask everyone. Why (if you ARE against it) are you against secession?

Secession doesn't bother me. History has proven that secession is usually good. I just don't think it is likely that a US state would separate from the Union. The USA will likely just fade off the world scene, like the UK's ''empire''. Actually, America is already fading.

FL

Canuckster wrote:
So, no. I make no apology for voting for Obama. It wasn't a "mistake." It was the decision I came to and I made it with my eyes wide open.

Bart, if I know you at all, your decision on whom to vote was a long, well thought out decision. It's good to hear other perspectives, especially by a believer on why you came to the decision to vote for Obama. There have been more than enough people around my neck of the woods, who claim one can't be a Christian and vote for Obama. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing it.
Thank you for talking about the reasons for your voting the way you did. It's always good to hear the reasons why other Christians come to the decisions they do, even when we disagree about those decisions. Besides, other than yourself, I don't really know any left wing hippies.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:The USA will likely just fade off the world scene, like the UK's ''empire''. Actually, America is already fading.

Oh, I've heard plenty of comparisons between the Roman Empire and the United States, actually. Let's at least the USA's imperialism comes to an end.

Canuckster wrote:So, no. I make no apology for voting for Obama. It wasn't a "mistake." It was the decision I came to and I made it with my eyes wide open.

All in all, there remains the question of who the "Christian vote" really was, or whether it existed at all. I personally believe there was no Christian vote this time around.

As for Obama being an economically sound president: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-h ... -george-hw

CNS news is hardly objective and no matter how you look at it, there hasn't been a budget passed with Obama's Fiscal Policy reflected yet.

Canuckster1127 wrote:no matter how you look at it, there hasn't been a budget passed with Obama's Fiscal Policy reflected yet.

In other words, the worst is yet to come. Fiscal cliff? No, fiscal Niagara Falls.

We'll see. If the Republican House continues to refuse to work with him and attempts to hold the nation hostage the option exists to give them what they wish and simply let the tax increases come back on everyone instead of just the top 2% and draconian spending cuts be implemented. That would sadden me, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Perhaps that and a few congressional recalls would get their attention.

All I have to say is if this country goes down the crapper, don't come cryin to me. I voted for Roseanne Barr.

Canuckster1127 wrote:CNS news is hardly objective and no matter how you look at it, there hasn't been a budget passed with Obama's Fiscal Policy reflected yet.

You're free to reinterpret the figures presented, if you can find a way to make Obama look better with them. Is Forbes somehow more reliable? Are they magically free of all bias? Keep in mind this is the same site that bashed Ron Paul for saying young people have the right to make their own decisions (but it was Rick Ungar we're talking about, here, who understands Austrian Economics no more than a colorblind person understands the concept of "red"). How on earth is CSN more skewed or unreliable?

Here's a few more sources if you're not convinced:
Total US Debt Soars To 101.5% Of GDP
Obamacare Now Estimated to Cost $2.6 Trillion in First Decade
Federal budget deficit hits $904 billion in June

Even if Obama 'didn't spend much compared to other presidents,' the USA is still loosing money... a lot of money. Even his attempts at turning the economy around have failed. In terms of economics, Obama isn't the right choice.

RickD wrote:All I have to say is if this country goes down the crapper, don't come cryin to me. I voted for Roseanne Barr.

Why on earth did you not vote for Vermin Supreme?

Forbes is not entirely free from bias but they do try to maintain some semblance of objectivity. If anything, they have a Republican/Conservative bias because their audience is the Business Community.

CNS - the "C" stands for conservative. They wear their bias in this name. There's no pretense of objectivity there.

It's the difference between reading something in the News section and something on the Editorial Page. Don't mistake one for the another.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Forbes is not entirely free from bias but they do try to maintain some semblance of objectivity. If anything, they have a Republican/Conservative bias because their audience is the Business Community.

CNS - the "C" stands for conservative. They wear their bias in this name. There's no pretense of objectivity there.

It's the difference between reading something in the News section and something on the Editorial Page. Don't mistake one for the another.

Ah, so Forbes IS better. I can understand that.

But I'll just leave this here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrar ... d-history/

It's also worth noting that Rick Ungar, again, is practically royalty in the world of bad economics.

Why on earth did you not vote for Vermin Supreme?

Stygian, you could well imagine my dismay when it dawned on me that Vermin Supreme wasn't on the ballot in Florida. I almost moved to Canada, when I realized that. But then, all my hope in humanity and this great country was restored when Roseanne Barr was on the ballot in Florida! I was smitten with her from the moment I heard her sing the national anthem! I'd never heard such a beautiful, angelic voice in all my life.

RickD wrote:

Why on earth did you not vote for Vermin Supreme?

Stygian, you could well imagine my dismay when it dawned on me that Vermin Supreme wasn't on the ballot in Florida. I almost moved to Canada, when I realized that. But then, all my hope in humanity and this great country was restored when Roseanne Barr was on the ballot in Florida! I was smitten with her from the moment I heard her sing the national anthem! I'd never heard such a beautiful, angelic voice in all my life.

But... no free pony!

Can you believe Roseanne Barr got over 48,000 votes?

Is it any wonder than this country is going down the crapper?