Evidence for God from Science

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

I wonder what your worldview has to offer the mother and little girl.

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

Face palm.

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

What do you mean by, what good will come out of this?

Kurieuo wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

I wonder what your worldview has to offer the mother and little girl.

I like this, K.

1over137 wrote:What do you mean by, what good will come out of this?

MAGSolo doesn't understand or accept that God uses all events to build His Kingdom. MAGSolo also does not understand what is God's goal for each of us. Lastly, MAGSolo has a very limited understanding of the word ''good''...he is afflicted with severe myopia yet keeps insisting that he sees clearly. Poor man. Poor blind, foolish man!

I used to work with prisonners who were transitioning to life in society after having spent many years behind bars. Most were murderers. During their years in prison, some had come to accept Christ. One such man now runs an organization that helps poor people with clothing, food, lodging, and even helps them find employment. So, this former murderer is an example of God using terrible events and a heinous sinner to produce much good fruit.

FL

From 1 Timothy 1:12-17:

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those [l]who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17 Now to the King [m]eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory [n]forever and ever. Amen.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

1over137 wrote:What do you mean by, what good will come out of this?

MAGSolo doesn't understand or accept that God uses all events to build His Kingdom. MAGSolo also does not understand what is God's goal for each of us. Lastly, MAGSolo has a very limited understanding of the word ''good''...he is afflicted with severe myopia yet keeps insisting that he sees clearly. Poor man. Poor blind, foolish man!

I used to work with prisonners who were transitioning to life in society after having spent many years behind bars. Most were murderers. During their years in prison, some had come to accept Christ. One such man now runs an organization that helps poor people with clothing, food, lodging, and even helps them find employment. So, this former murderer is an example of God using terrible events and a heinous sinner to produce much good fruit.

FL

The main contention on subject of this nature and scope is that the secularist, atheists, and Nicolaitan believers base their assumptions on the superiority of human sentimentality. If you look closely, the bases is sentimentality – how it feels and not on truth. The truth is thus twisted, or left out altogether, in exchange for emotional reaction as the arbiter of truth.

Such sentimentality refuses to look at human agency involved in creating evil; nor does it allow the rationale for permitting ‘freedom to reason’ into the equation either. Take away that ‘freedom to reason’ to a moral being and you have true tyranny ruling by fear at work – the very thing secularist, atheists, and Nicolaitan believers accuse God of, they ultimately crave God to be to assuage and buttress their sentimentality.

It is funny how such clamor that God is unfair for allowing this or that to happen but notice the woe if God were to take away ‘freedom to reason’ away from them! Why they become incredulous at the thought of having their liberty of thought violated, and yet, base their argument on a sentimentality that cries out – if God were really just he must altogether abolish all ‘free moral agency’ to be really just and good.

So for God to really be good he must become a tyrannical tyrant, the very thing their sentimentality accuses God of being now, he must become to become good in their eyes. Their argument built upon a complete contradiction. They know not God…

Deut 32:3, 4, 5, "For I will proclaim the name of the LORD; ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 The Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are justice; a God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and right is He. 5 Is corruption His? No; His children's is the blemish; a generation crooked and perverse." JPS

Exodus 34:6, 7, "And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed: 'The LORD, the LORD, God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth; 7 keeping mercy unto the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and unto the fourth generation." JPS

Numbers 14:18, 19, 20, 21, "The LORD is slow to anger, and plenteous in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation. 19 Pardon, I pray Thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of Thy lovingkindness, and according as Thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.' 20 And the LORD said: 'I have pardoned according to thy word. 21 But in very deed, as I live - and all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD." JPS

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." NASB

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1over137 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

I wonder what your worldview has to offer the mother and little girl.

I like this, K.

While reading I was surprised to read the young girl ran away and got help. Shows a great strength and courage. As a Christian her survival suggests to me that God has a plan for her. Satan comes to rob and destroy, but his time is limited on earth. Yet, while he robbed this little girl's mother and destroyed much, God can make good rise out from even the evilist evils committed -- and give purpose to where we see none. He is God after all.

Atheism on the other hand provides no sense of purpose, no true right and wrong beyond what we each say is so, no light at the end of the tunnel, no hope, no love. The best consolation Atheism has to offer is that the perpetrator will die along with everything else in the world. And yet, there is no justice in that because the man could not do other than he did because his body was only following the path determined by chemicals bouncing around. In fact, he was doing his evolutionary duty in trying to spread offspring even if distorted in some way. So at the end of the day, Atheism doesn't even support justice.

Re: FL's comments. I personally don't care if the perpetrator burns in hell or not... whether a new leaf is turned down the track I defer to God to repay or do what he sees is best. I would not rejoice, nor would I weep either way. If God sees things different and so sends His own to witness to such, I'm not going to argue with God. But I'd much rather rejoice over the strength of the young girl and God having a plan for her, than any good happening to people who commit such evils.

why is it surprising that she ran away? I think most people would try to run or resist in some way if they were being raped. It doesnt show great strength and courage, its basic human survival, either try to run away or stay there and risk being killed. How does it show courage to run away from a rapist? Are you saying it would have been weak and cowardly of her if she had not run away. Also why did God need to allow her to be raped and have her mother stabbed to death in order to work out some plan for her. Its very possible she will grow up faithless and question how a loving and compassionate and all powerful God could have let something so terrible happen to her. She may grow up wondering why doesnt God protect 10 year old girls from rapists. She may grow up wondering how a loving God could let her mother be taken from her in such a terrible way.

1over137 wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/woman-killed-chil ... 08186.html
I wonder what good will come out of this?

What do you mean by, what good will come out of this?

Paul asked me earlier if I think that it is impossible for good things to come from evil deeds. Im saying here that I wonder what good will come from this that couldnt have just as easily have been accomplished without the evil deed occurring.

PaulSacramento wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Byblos wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:God could very easily just kill anyone with serious intentions to harm someone else the moment they were about to do it.

Yeah, that is a heck of a statement...

God had no problem with having entire nations wiped out on several occassions down to children and infants because their societies were evil. What is the big deal about him killing someone that is about to murder or rape or commit some other terrible atrocity?

I think you need to read what you wrote there.
If your co-worker dropped dead right next to you right now, or your father or mother or sister or son, what would you think?
If God decided to kill anyone BEFORE they committed an "evil act" ( which according to you is an act this is not good, ie: an act that will harm another), God would have to kill them before of course because after doesn't make sense for an all-knowing being, right?
SO God kills some one you love because He knows that person WILL commit and act of evil.
That person has NOT done it yet but has been tried and executed for something he/she will do.
And you are OK with this?
You are ok with God killing people BEFORE they commit an act of evil even though YOU have EVIDENCE that they WOULD do such?
You are OK wit that?

I would like to revisit this comment by Paul. You pretty clearly here have voiced your opinion that you dont agree with the idea of God killing people before they commit a sinful act. I would like to clear this up. Is this how you feel? Anyone else feel free to chime in. Do you all agree that it is not a good idea for God to kill people before they commit an evil act?

Trolling, trolling, trolling...

MAGSolo wrote:why is it surprising that she ran away? I think most people would try to run or resist in some way if they were being raped. It doesnt show great strength and courage, its basic human survival, either try to run away or stay there and risk being killed. How does it show courage to run away from a rapist? Are you saying it would have been weak and cowardly of her if she had not run away. Also why did God need to allow her to be raped and have her mother stabbed to death in order to work out some plan for her. Its very possible she will grow up faithless and question how a loving and compassionate and all powerful God could have let something so terrible happen to her. She may grow up wondering why doesnt God protect 10 year old girls from rapists. She may grow up wondering how a loving God could let her mother be taken from her in such a terrible way.

Ok, Magsolo. Here is an example of what good can come out:

I suffered terrible depression, tried to take my own life twice. Was in and out of hospitals. Was complete hell for me.
Am I angry at God? Not at all. I see purpose in my suffering. E.g. now I understand really depressed people and suiciders, I know how it feels when you are totally down. I survived and know what such people need, how to encourage them, and even maybe help them out of their hell.

Any more questions?

I would like to revisit this comment by Paul. You pretty clearly here have voiced your opinion that you dont agree with the idea of God killing people before they commit a sinful act. I would like to clear this up. Is this how you feel? Anyone else feel free to chime in. Do you all agree that it is not a good idea for God to kill people before they commit an evil act?

MAGSolo wrote:I would like to revisit this comment by Paul. You pretty clearly here have voiced your opinion that you dont agree with the idea of God killing people before they commit a sinful act. I would like to clear this up. Is this how you feel? Anyone else feel free to chime in. Do you all agree that it is not a good idea for God to kill people before they commit an evil act?

So, what I am hearing you say Mag is this: It is perfectly acceptable for human beings to kill each other, correct?
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