Evidence for God from Science

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

Alter2Ego wrote:If you had bothered to read the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters that are related to Jeremiah 23:24), you would have realized that the verse is with reference to God turning attention specifically to the ancient Israelites who were rebelling against him. Not only that, the context to Jeremiah 23:24 is overrun with figurative speech. For instance, part of the context states:

I have read Jeremiah in it's entirety many times and I find it rather insulting that you say I haven't even bothered to read it. I do agree however with the context you have laid out, Jeremiah was written because the Israelites had turned their back on God. Jeremiah does use figurative speech and hyperbolic language to convey his message to the people.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

Alter2Ego wrote:"'Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasturage!' is the utterance of Jehovah." (Jeremiah 23:1)

Are we to understand that God is referring to literal shepherds and literal sheep in a literal pasturage? Of course not. The context explains that the "shepherds" are the religious leaders and the "sheep" are the ordinary Israelites who are being misguided by the false religious leaders, as follows:

So here you are interpreting the text and I have no issues with this as it seems correct. The dictionary say that sheep can mean people who follow and shepherd can also be religious leaders of a flock (which can mean a group of people)and the pastures are obviously the land they live in. So really most of these words here can be interpreted as literal because that is what the words mean, the only word here that really needs interpretation would be pastures.

neo-x wrote:

ALTER2EGO -to- SON OF ALETHEIA:
Speak for yourself. I happen to believe that you are an atheist and that you don't care anything about any conversation where the Bible is concerned. In fact, you showed up earlier making derogatory comments about the New World Translation. So your sudden interest in the cherry picked words that were isolated from the context of several verses is suspicious, at best.


The only person that sees literal hellfire torment in those words are people who cherry pick words from entire verses and ignore everything else. That's exactly what PaulSacramento did. Whenever people isolate a few words from an entire verse and ignore everything else, it indicates they are not interested in the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters).

Danieltwotwenty did the same thing with Jeremiah 23:24. When I showed Danieltwotwenty the context, he/she continued to argue that Jeremiah 23:24 means what he/she says it means. That is exactly the response I will get from PaulSacramento if I show him/her the context to the words that he/she cherry picked above. That's why I asked PaulSacramento to explain where he/she is seeing literal hellfire torment in the entire verses (as opposed to a few words that PaulSacramento isolated).



Since you insist that the cherry picked words are to be taken literally, maybe you and PaulSacramento should consult and then put together an explanation for why that is the case.

I think you are too full of yourself.

Not one of my questions was answered in her above post and I really think the mods should ban this person immediately as she has violated the forum rules on several occasions and has been warned

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

neo-x wrote:

ALTER2EGO -to- SON OF ALETHEIA:
Speak for yourself. I happen to believe that you are an atheist and that you don't care anything about any conversation where the Bible is concerned. In fact, you showed up earlier making derogatory comments about the New World Translation. So your sudden interest in the cherry picked words that were isolated from the context of several verses is suspicious, at best.


The only person that sees literal hellfire torment in those words are people who cherry pick words from entire verses and ignore everything else. That's exactly what PaulSacramento did. Whenever people isolate a few words from an entire verse and ignore everything else, it indicates they are not interested in the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters).

Danieltwotwenty did the same thing with Jeremiah 23:24. When I showed Danieltwotwenty the context, he/she continued to argue that Jeremiah 23:24 means what he/she says it means. That is exactly the response I will get from PaulSacramento if I show him/her the context to the words that he/she cherry picked above. That's why I asked PaulSacramento to explain where he/she is seeing literal hellfire torment in the entire verses (as opposed to a few words that PaulSacramento isolated).



Since you insist that the cherry picked words are to be taken literally, maybe you and PaulSacramento should consult and then put together an explanation for why that is the case.

I think you are too full of yourself.

I agree, this person has no interest in rational discourse whatsoever, all they seem to be interested in is their bold assertions.

Not one of my questions was answered in her above post and I really think the mods should ban this person immediately as she has violated the forum rules on several occasions and has been warned.

She is just trolling us trying to get a bad reaction, I seriously think the whole board should cease any sort of communication with her, the only thing we can do is pray that she might see the light of truth.

Well I am not going to waste anymore time on this, I don't like giving up on people but in this situation I think going on with this is only perpetuating an extremely bad situation.

Now I am sure she will say we are persecuting her and that will validate her belief that she is right, but I think it takes the bigger people to walk away from madness.


Dan

Mallz wrote:

Not one of my questions was answered in her above post and I really think the mods should ban this person immediately as she has violated the forum rules on several occasions and has been warned

Seriously... Please listen mods. I, too, have read her tiresome, rude 'discussions'. I come here to learn and ask questions. Seeing someone like this being humored to the extent she has been is disappointing and frankly I loose interest in checking these forums when such closed-minded hateful people are allowed to run rampant. If I feel this way, others must. Lets keep these forums on track for the good they are created for: Intellectual, respectful discussions from those of various faiths or lack of in search for truth.

Alter2Ego wrote: ALTER2EGO -to- SON OF ALETHEIA:
Speak for yourself. I happen to believe that you are an atheist and that you don't care anything about any conversation where the Bible is concerned. In fact, you showed up earlier making derogatory comments about the New World Translation. So your sudden interest in the cherry picked words that were isolated from the context of several verses is suspicious, at best.
The only person that sees literal hellfire torment in those words are people who cherry pick words from entire verses and ignore everything else. That's exactly what PaulSacramento did. Whenever people isolate a few words from an entire verse and ignore everything else, it indicates they are not interested in the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters).
Danieltwotwenty did the same thing with Jeremiah 23:24. When I showed Danieltwotwenty the context, he/she continued to argue that Jeremiah 23:24 means what he/she says it means. That is exactly the response I will get from PaulSacramento if I show him/her the context to the words that he/she cherry picked above. That's why I asked PaulSacramento to explain where he/she is seeing literal hellfire torment in the entire verses (as opposed to a few words that PaulSacramento isolated).
Since you insist that the cherry picked words are to be taken literally, maybe you and PaulSacramento should consult and then put together an explanation for why that is the case.

RickD wrote:Alter2Ego,

I'm going to step back from the discussion, and moderate.
With that, I need to point out what Danieltwotwenty was trying to say. He tried to show you how Jeremiah 23:24 shows God's omnipresence. Here's the verse:
24 “Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the Lord.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the Lord.

Since the verse says that God fills the heavens and the earth, I believe that's where Daniel was showing God's omnipresence.

Alter2Ego, how do you interpret that part of the verse?

SonofAletheia wrote:

Alter2Ego wrote:

ALTER2EGO -to- PAUL SACRAMENTO:
I looked through the verses you presented above and did not see anything in any of them that is with reference to literal hellfire torment. Suppose you explain where you are seeing literal hellfire by starting with the first four verses? We will do four verses at a time.

Instead of responding to my above request, PaulSacramento disappeared. He/she recently showed up in this thread again, just to complain to you that I would not accept what he/she claims is proof of literal hellfire torment in the verses.

Even though I am largely open to various views on Hell (is it more metaphorical or literal, is it purely separation from God or actual torture, views on annihilationism or universalism) it's your job to show that those verses are not talking about literal hellfire.

Any objective reader would conclude that it's literal hellfire (without an opposing argument which I'll gladly hear from you...?)
“eternal fire” “unquenchable fire” “shame and everlasting contempt” “the fire is not quenched” “torment” “fire” “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” “lake of burning sulfur” “tormented day and night forever and ever”
It's amazing how you read these words and conclude that you "don't see anything in any of them that is with reference to literal hellfire torment"

1. Do you believe that Jesus is God?
2. Do you believe that Jesus is holy?

PeteSinCA wrote:Thanks, Rick. My long posts near the end were the ones I liked....something possibly informative and helpful.