Re: OSAS
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:48 pm
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
RickD wrote:Ha! I knew it! You're to smart to be blonde! The best of both worlds. The looks of a blonde, and the brains of a brunette.melanie wrote:Ha, well my hairdresser helps outRickD wrote:Well said Melanie.melanie wrote:Assuming that we are talking about 'true' christians. People who sincerely accepted the gift of salvation how bad or far do they have to stumble before God gives up on them?
The preacher who has his public life splashed all over the tabloids for having an affair? The women who experiences too much loss that she questions Gods existence or goodness, the man who struggles with self acceptance and drinks to numb the doubt? The youth who cannot get past childhood trauma and sticks a needle in his vein too often till he becomes a slave to it?
At what point does God turn His back on us and walks away?
That's what we do.
That's our humanity.
We turn on back and give up on ourselves, on life, on spouses, family, friends and God. When it gets too tough, when we are fed up, when we cant take it anymore we do the walking.
But God doesn't.
Our sin places a distance between ourselves and God that is too great for any of us to ever bridge. We cannot get to God, so God came to us, He did through Jesus, he bridged the gap. Forever. It is done. We can't ever truly distance ourselves from Gods love no matter how hard we try and outrun Him. His promise is eternal, crosses all boundries and bridges all gaps.
Gods love for us never falters, if it did then He could give up on us and walk away but His love is eternal.
Praise be to God, we don't deserve it but we are blessed beyond comprehension.
Are you sure you're a true blonde?
Signed,
Like those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit? So, could we affirm that OSAS is true except with blasphemers?I think that there are things that can happen that can cause a person to reject Christ ( on an emotional level more than any other I think).
I'm in agreement.Yes, it IS elitist, only in the sense that although EVERYONE is give the opportunity to eternally join God's elite Family, that there also is ONLY one way into that family (through Jesus!).
And is it not inevitable for all of Gods creations to be chosen, because of self-determinate will?Pr-destination is not God merely His foreknowing who will accept His offer of salvation (truly available to EVERYONE), but God chooses us (Christians). And He chooses us based upon His Holy values, righteousness, love, mercy and will. God did not merely leave salvation up to our blundering, bumbling, blind, supposed ability to find Him.
How about blasphemy as I'm currently understanding it? Or is it impossible for true believers as defined by PaulSacramento to blaspheme? <--- That might be true.I do not have a reason biblically to think a person can lose their salvation.
It can definitely be taken that way, and denominations have and have abused it. I just want to distance myself from them and affirm me thinking you can lose salvation had nothing to do with my fleshly ego :pI actually think it is the opposite if you believe a person can lose their salvation then it is you judging them and thinking in your mind you're better than them.
Gotcha.I don't know if person x is saved. If I ask him a few questions, and assume his answers are honest, I can tell if he's a believer.
Same question to you. Can a believer blaspheme the Holy Spirit? If he can, is he the exception?If someone trusts Christ for salvation, he is saved. He has eternal life. Nothing can change that.
I mean free will, sorry.As far as self determination, I don't know what you mean.
Do you think there are people like this who never had the opportunity to know God, to come to Him and die before they do? And if so, what do you think happens to them? Are they given the same grace as innocence?The preacher who has his public life splashed all over the tabloids for having an affair? The women who experiences too much loss that she questions Gods existence or goodness, the man who struggles with self acceptance and drinks to numb the doubt? The youth who cannot get past childhood trauma and sticks a needle in his vein too often till he becomes a slave to it?
I really enjoyed thisEphesians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxxfOEW-FGE
Hana,1over137 wrote:
If we cannot 'gain' it then how so that somehow we can 'for-gain' it based on God's for-knowledge?
This question came to my mind when reading your sentence.
I take it back Rick. I know where my mistake was.RickD wrote:Hana,1over137 wrote:
If we cannot 'gain' it then how so that somehow we can 'for-gain' it based on God's for-knowledge?
This question came to my mind when reading your sentence.
Could you reword the question? I'm not sure what you mean.
Well don't be shy. Share your revelation with us!1over137 wrote:I take it back Rick. I know where my mistake was.RickD wrote:Hana,1over137 wrote:
If we cannot 'gain' it then how so that somehow we can 'for-gain' it based on God's for-knowledge?
This question came to my mind when reading your sentence.
Could you reword the question? I'm not sure what you mean.
The Great Revelation:RickD wrote:Well don't be shy. Share your revelation with us!1over137 wrote:I take it back Rick. I know where my mistake was.RickD wrote:Hana,1over137 wrote:
If we cannot 'gain' it then how so that somehow we can 'for-gain' it based on God's for-knowledge?
This question came to my mind when reading your sentence.
Could you reword the question? I'm not sure what you mean.
The great Revelation:1over137 wrote:The Great Revelation:RickD wrote:Well don't be shy. Share your revelation with us!1over137 wrote:I take it back Rick. I know where my mistake was.RickD wrote:Hana,1over137 wrote:
If we cannot 'gain' it then how so that somehow we can 'for-gain' it based on God's for-knowledge?
This question came to my mind when reading your sentence.
Could you reword the question? I'm not sure what you mean.
Hana, think twice before posting something. And do not be stressed if you do not manage to respond within some time to some questions.
Great question MallzMallz wrote:Like those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit? So, could we affirm that OSAS is true except with blasphemers?I think that there are things that can happen that can cause a person to reject Christ ( on an emotional level more than any other I think).
Or is my definition of a blasphemer wrong?:
"A person like that KNOWS that Christ exists and knows the gospel of Grace BUT chooses to reject it" who attributes God to satan? Or would it really be anyone/thing to claim God is evil, the devil?
I'm in agreement.Yes, it IS elitist, only in the sense that although EVERYONE is give the opportunity to eternally join God's elite Family, that there also is ONLY one way into that family (through Jesus!).
And is it not inevitable for all of Gods creations to be chosen, because of self-determinate will?Pr-destination is not God merely His foreknowing who will accept His offer of salvation (truly available to EVERYONE), but God chooses us (Christians). And He chooses us based upon His Holy values, righteousness, love, mercy and will. God did not merely leave salvation up to our blundering, bumbling, blind, supposed ability to find Him.
Is the contrast then true that God doesn't choose people?
Is there an issue with creating beings God does not choose? I feel like there is.
Or is it simply God knows who will choose Him, so He chooses them and puts them best in their life to know Him?
How about blasphemy as I'm currently understanding it? Or is it impossible for true believers as defined by PaulSacramento to blaspheme? <--- That might be true.I do not have a reason biblically to think a person can lose their salvation.
It can definitely be taken that way, and denominations have and have abused it. I just want to distance myself from them and affirm me thinking you can lose salvation had nothing to do with my fleshly ego :pI actually think it is the opposite if you believe a person can lose their salvation then it is you judging them and thinking in your mind you're better than them.
Gotcha.I don't know if person x is saved. If I ask him a few questions, and assume his answers are honest, I can tell if he's a believer.
Same question to you. Can a believer blaspheme the Holy Spirit? If he can, is he the exception?If someone trusts Christ for salvation, he is saved. He has eternal life. Nothing can change that.
Or is it that a believer cannot sin in this way? A gift given to Christians that reflects our free will but disposition to sin that awaits us after these bodies are perfected? How did Jac put it... I forget the term, but it was in explanation of how Jesus was incapable of sin. How we will be in the future...
I mean free will, sorry.As far as self determination, I don't know what you mean.
Do you think there are people like this who never had the opportunity to know God, to come to Him and die before they do? And if so, what do you think happens to them? Are they given the same grace as innocence?The preacher who has his public life splashed all over the tabloids for having an affair? The women who experiences too much loss that she questions Gods existence or goodness, the man who struggles with self acceptance and drinks to numb the doubt? The youth who cannot get past childhood trauma and sticks a needle in his vein too often till he becomes a slave to it?
How about the life long drunk whose been numbing his pain his whole mortal coil, then dies before knowing he could have faith?
Or someone who knows so much about so many false christian denominations and rightfully rejects it, but by throwing Christianity away because of such venom, he never comes to know God before he dies?
I really enjoyed thisEphesians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxxfOEW-FGE
One CAN reject Jesus by rejecting God as He has ALREADY revealed Himself - even though that initial revealing may not have included knowledge of the Gospel and knowledge about Jesus (see Romans 1). It is interesting that God reveals the reason for the doomed fate of the heathen, in Romans 1, and yet the specific rejection Jesus is never even mentioned - in fact, addressing the issue of what those without the Gospel have rejected about God (Whom necessarily includes Jesus), Paul says what they have already rejected, that they already knew about God, is enough to seal their fate.Melanie wrote: Can ignorance be classed as rejection? I don't think so. Can it be argued that all those millions of people who lived in cultures where they weren't exposed to Christianity are in hell, again I don't think so. Now I could be wrong, I do not want to question Gods wisdom, in either respect.
I just trust God. I trust His mercy and compassion. Damning whole factions of people to hell is not a road I am comfortable walking down.