Evidence for God from Science

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote: Im not on speaking terms with you either. Get it?

Welcome to the club Rick. How does it feel to be ignored!

Audie would never ignore me! She's much too respectful, and polite for that.

"Quoth the Raven..."

Audie wrote:"Quoth the Raven..."

... nevermore.

Audie,

Denies there is world wide dust but something happened about the time of Noah's flood and I'm just going to give evidence,for it is all I can do,so here is scientific evidence.
http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cont ... 9.abstract
http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword04i.htm

Scientists will not consider a biblical explanation because this is secular science that Audie denies and it points to something world wide happening about the time of Noah's flood.I have given 3 links so far to back it up one above and and now two more and I could find more.Like I've said before the bible and nature will go together and there is no need to try to help make it happen,God's word will be revealed true.Watch and see God's word be revealed by the nature he created because the bible is true.

All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

abelcainsbrother wrote:All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

Buckland's science was misinformed at best. And gap theory is a belief system its no science. All gap theory does is says there was life and it was perished. Not to mention it has zero support in scripture. Evolution on the other hand predicts, helps and is a ground for biology and medical advances. Can gap theory make a prediction? no. One of the basic rules of what makes a scientific theory, valid, is that it should be able to make predictions. Evolution does that and that is why is considered science, ID doesn't do that, gap theory doesn't, progressive creationism doesn't. These are all beliefs.

So repeating the same thing over doesn't prove the gap theory at all. Its a theory based in error, on a misinformed reading of the bible, cherry picking verses here and there.

I have been following this thread with interest as I am not convinced about the Gap theory (sorry ACB) and I`m still not convinced.


There is a page on the home site that puts forward why the Gap theory is wrong, how it came about through misinterpretation, I will see if I can find it. I think it was something about Genesis 1 and 2. How, if you read it as seperate verses rather than as a whole you can interpret it differently.

neo-x wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

Buckland's science was misinformed at best. And gap theory is a belief system its no science. All gap theory does is says there was life and it was perished. Not to mention it has zero support in scripture. Evolution on the other hand predicts, helps and is a ground for biology and medical advances. Can gap theory make a prediction? no. One of the basic rules of what makes a scientific theory, valid, is that it should be able to make predictions. Evolution does that and that is why is considered science, ID doesn't do that, gap theory doesn't, progressive creationism doesn't. These are all beliefs.

So repeating the same thing over doesn't prove the gap theory at all. Its a theory based in error, on a misinformed reading of the bible, cherry picking verses here and there.

Neo,

You are mistaken, specifically with the underlined. I tried to tell this to Audie, when she asserted the same thing you did. Hugh Ross does make predictions with his creation model in his book More Than a Theory: Revealing a Testable Model for Creation.
I'd ask you to read it, but it's probably banned in your country.

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

Buckland's science was misinformed at best. And gap theory is a belief system its no science. All gap theory does is says there was life and it was perished. Not to mention it has zero support in scripture. Evolution on the other hand predicts, helps and is a ground for biology and medical advances. Can gap theory make a prediction? no. One of the basic rules of what makes a scientific theory, valid, is that it should be able to make predictions. Evolution does that and that is why is considered science, ID doesn't do that, gap theory doesn't, progressive creationism doesn't. These are all beliefs.

So repeating the same thing over doesn't prove the gap theory at all. Its a theory based in error, on a misinformed reading of the bible, cherry picking verses here and there.

Neo,

You are mistaken, specifically with the underlined. I tried to tell this to Audie, when she asserted the same thing you did. Hugh Ross does make predictions with his creation model in his book More Than a Theory: Revealing a Testable Model for Creation.
I'd ask you to read it, but it's probably banned in your country.

If you could direct me to a specific chapter which deals with thid, I will read it and tell you what I think.

I seem to have misplaced my copy of the book. But if I remember correctly, it was in the back.

BTW Christian books are not banned in Pakistan, anti-muslim books are. That is why bible is not banned in Pakistan.

Nevermind. I found my book. Pretty much the whole book is about his creation model.
But Appendix C (page 261) talks about predictive tests for four creation/evolution models.

And it gives a link on Reasons.org that has an electronic addendum to the book.

Maybe this will help. Here's the link:
http://www.reasons.org/resources/predictions

neo-x wrote:BTW Christian books are not banned in Pakistan, anti-muslim books are. That is why bible is not banned in Pakistan.

That's actually refreshing Neo.

neo-x wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

Buckland's science was misinformed at best. And gap theory is a belief system its no science. All gap theory does is says there was life and it was perished. Not to mention it has zero support in scripture. Evolution on the other hand predicts, helps and is a ground for biology and medical advances. Can gap theory make a prediction? no. One of the basic rules of what makes a scientific theory, valid, is that it should be able to make predictions. Evolution does that and that is why is considered science, ID doesn't do that, gap theory doesn't, progressive creationism doesn't. These are all beliefs.

So repeating the same thing over doesn't prove the gap theory at all. Its a theory based in error, on a misinformed reading of the bible, cherry picking verses here and there.

Neo,bro in order to accept evolution you have to not take the bible literally first off.I don't have to do that with the gap theory,you say I repeat myself but I stick out because I'm in the minority,but this is OK to me.I'd rather be right. It is what we do take scripture from here or there to realize the former world and the gap,it is quite normal to do this as the bible is like a big jigsaw puzzle and to see the picture clearly you must put the pieces of the puzzle together.This is called rightly dividing the word of God.

All you're really doing is hiding behind evolution science and everybody knows how well it is accepted by the scientific community and we know no creation theory has effected it,the church has threw everything at it and yet nothing has really happened and this is because the church is not using the gap theory.The NIV tells you Genesis 1:2 can be translated "became without form and void" instead of " was without form and void".

Now I know you've got your mind made up but I can take the very same evidence in evolution science and use it to prove a former world indeed existed that perished,the evidence in the earth confirms and attests to it,looking at the evidence from an evolution perspective does you no good against the gap theory like it does with the other creation theories,because without evidence that demonstrates life evolves? the evidence used as evidence for evolution is null and void but yet I can use it all of the fossils,etc and prove a former world existed that perished.

I can post links showing humanoids,dinosaurs,wooly mammoths,,the age of the earth,etc and prove a former world existed that perished and evolution will be defeated,once and for all, and the reason it hasn't happened yet is because the church has forgot about the gap theory and refuses to change right now.Young earth creationists would have to throw out most all of their "creation science" and they don't want to do that,so they make up lies and misinform people about the gap theory.

I have read what they say and it is wrong and it really shows that they are denying something they don't even know about and I can tell be there points against it.They don't even know the gap theory was discovered first from reading the NT,not the OT and Genesis.So there discussions about the Hebrew are moot,they need to be talking about the Greek.Another problem are these newer translations,they have lost the flavor of the KJV and the KJV is rejected but I can defend the gap using most any of the newer translations.

The only reason science keeps it going for billions of years is so that life can evolve,they always make sure life survives so that it can evolve but the evidence testifies to devastation and extinction,not evolution.Buckland was a scientist and he taught the gap theory you say is an idea.I know very well it is not an accepted theory by scientific standards but it should be because it is still just as true as before Charles Darwin.Charles Darwin took all of the known scientific evidence at the time and made evolution fit into it.He knew the earth was old,knew about the fossils and dinosaurs,etc and ever since then science has been looking at the evidence from the wrong perspective.

The gap theory was defeating evolution in debates in the 1980's and until the church wisens up to the gap theory? Evolution is here to stay and it is sad that so many people have been deceived by evolution and the church can't do much about it using the wrong creation theories against it.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 " For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of OLD,and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:Whereby the WORLD that THEN WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. It is clear as a bell that a former world perished and the geological evidence in this earth proves it and shows us what kind of life was in the former world that perished.

Also do not forget what scoffers will say in the last days
2nd Peter 3:4 And saying,Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers died,all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." The gap theory is the only theory that does not teach this all of the other ones teach all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation,no matter if it is evolution,YEC,OEC,etc they all teach what Peter said they would teach in the last days.

I only care about the truth being taught and when it comes to creationism it is not being taught as true biblical truth.I know I won't change many minds but I believe the bible over what man says.

Anybody is free to try to show me how or why I'm wrong but they need to do it biblically first instead of just telling me it is wrong.I accept the gap theory for a reason and it is mostly biblical,I've compared it to everything else and examined the criticisms against it and it is the most true one both biblically and scientifically.God bless you as I don't want to cause division but this is what I believe even if I'm in the minority that matters little to me.

I highly recommend that if a person wants good biblical evidence for the gap theory?They should buy a Dakes annotated reference bible,it is a big thick bible,but worth it if you can afford it because it is first important to understand it biblically first before you examine science to find evidence.It can take time but it is worth it and the Dakes bible is chock full of a bunch of other good stuff that does not deal with the gap theory.

There is good reasons to believe the former world perished at the ice age which was from about 13,000 years ago and it lasted until about 10,000 years ago.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjec ... outs.shtml

abelcainsbrother wrote:

neo-x wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:All I'm doing is trying to teach the same thing William Buckland did at Oxford in the early 1800' s the gap theory,Buckland was a geologist and paleontologist who discovered the very first dinosaur and this was before Charles Darwin published "On the origin of species" in 1859.

You can disagree with Buckland and me and others but he knew the dinosaurs and fossils and death in the earth confirmed the gap theory true and that it is confirmed true that a former world full of life did indeed exist and perished before God created this world on the earth in Genesis 1.And if you don't look at the evidence in the earth from an evolution perspective,the evidence of a very old earth and the fossil evidence and evidence of death and extinction confirm indeed a former world did indeed exist like the gap theory biblical interpretation tells us.It is a biblical prediction confirmed by the evidence about this earth and in this earth.

Buckland's science was misinformed at best. And gap theory is a belief system its no science. All gap theory does is says there was life and it was perished. Not to mention it has zero support in scripture. Evolution on the other hand predicts, helps and is a ground for biology and medical advances. Can gap theory make a prediction? no. One of the basic rules of what makes a scientific theory, valid, is that it should be able to make predictions. Evolution does that and that is why is considered science, ID doesn't do that, gap theory doesn't, progressive creationism doesn't. These are all beliefs.

So repeating the same thing over doesn't prove the gap theory at all. Its a theory based in error, on a misinformed reading of the bible, cherry picking verses here and there.

Neo,bro in order to accept evolution you have to not take the bible literally first off.I don't have to do that with the gap theory,you say I repeat myself but I stick out because I'm in the minority,but this is OK to me.I'd rather be right. It is what we do take scripture from here or there to realize the former world and the gap,it is quite normal to do this as the bible is like a big jigsaw puzzle and to see the picture clearly you must put the pieces of the puzzle together.This is called rightly dividing the word of God.

All you're really doing is hiding behind evolution science and everybody knows how well it is accepted by the scientific community and we know no creation theory has effected it,the church has threw everything at it and yet nothing has really happened and this is because the church is not using the gap theory.The NIV tells you Genesis 1:2 can be translated "became without form and void" instead of " was without form and void".

Now I know you've got your mind made up but I can take the very same evidence in evolution science and use it to prove a former world indeed existed that perished,the evidence in the earth confirms and attests to it,looking at the evidence from an evolution perspective does you no good against the gap theory like it does with the other creation theories,because without evidence that demonstrates life evolves? the evidence used as evidence for evolution is null and void but yet I can use it all of the fossils,etc and prove a former world existed that perished.

I can post links showing humanoids,dinosaurs,wooly mammoths,,the age of the earth,etc and prove a former world existed that perished and evolution will be defeated,once and for all, and the reason it hasn't happened yet is because the church has forgot about the gap theory and refuses to change right now.Young earth creationists would have to throw out most all of their "creation science" and they don't want to do that,so they make up lies and misinform people about the gap theory.

I have read what they say and it is wrong and it really shows that they are denying something they don't even know about and I can tell be there points against it.They don't even know the gap theory was discovered first from reading the NT,not the OT and Genesis.So there discussions about the Hebrew are moot,they need to be talking about the Greek.Another problem are these newer translations,they have lost the flavor of the KJV and the KJV is rejected but I can defend the gap using most any of the newer translations.

The only reason science keeps it going for billions of years is so that life can evolve,they always make sure life survives so that it can evolve but the evidence testifies to devastation and extinction,not evolution.Buckland was a scientist and he taught the gap theory you say is an idea.I know very well it is not an accepted theory by scientific standards but it should be because it is still just as true as before Charles Darwin.Charles Darwin took all of the known scientific evidence at the time and made evolution fit into it.He knew the earth was old,knew about the fossils and dinosaurs,etc and ever since then science has been looking at the evidence from the wrong perspective.

The gap theory was defeating evolution in debates in the 1980's and until the church wisens up to the gap theory? Evolution is here to stay and it is sad that so many people have been deceived by evolution and the church can't do much about it using the wrong creation theories against it.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 " For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of OLD,and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:Whereby the WORLD that THEN WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. It is clear as a bell that a former world perished and the geological evidence in this earth proves it and shows us what kind of life was in the former world that perished.

Also do not forget what scoffers will say in the last days
2nd Peter 3:4 And saying,Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers died,all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." The gap theory is the only theory that does not teach this all of the other ones teach all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation,no matter if it is evolution,YEC,OEC,etc they all teach what Peter said they would teach in the last days.

I only care about the truth being taught and when it comes to creationism it is not being taught as true biblical truth.I know I won't change many minds but I believe the bible over what man says.

Anybody is free to try to show me how or why I'm wrong but they need to do it biblically first instead of just telling me it is wrong.I accept the gap theory for a reason and it is mostly biblical,I've compared it to everything else and examined the criticisms against it and it is the most true one both biblically and scientifically.God bless you as I don't want to cause division but this is what I believe even if I'm in the minority that matters little to me.

I highly recommend that if a person wants good biblical evidence for the gap theory?They should buy a Dakes annotated reference bible,it is a big thick bible,but worth it if you can afford it because it is first important to understand it biblically first before you examine science to find evidence.It can take time but it is worth it and the Dakes bible is chock full of a bunch of other good stuff that does not deal with the gap theory.

There is good reasons to believe the former world perished at the ice age which was from about 13,000 years ago and it lasted until about 10,000 years ago.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjec ... outs.shtml

Keep in mind the earth is frozen in Genesis 1:2 so again science bears this out.