Evidence for God from Science

Song 5:10 "My beloved is dazzling (bright as in energetic) and ruddy (brown as in skin color), Outstanding among ten thousand." NASB

After reading Lost's post and odd quote from the KJV of Song 5:10 KJV regading the word translated white - well - stick with the original word meanings and context and not racist rants that twist the scripture...

The Beloved had brown skin color and the reference to white concerns his male energy or testosterone induced energy that the Song of Solomon indicates between a bride and bride groom...




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Lost tribes your doctrine is lost and not biblical at all...
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LostTribesNotLost

From the Board Purpose:

Board Purpose (Last updated on 5 September 2010)
This board is a part of Evidence for God from Science (G&S), a Christian website, which serves to provide a defence and persuasive case for Christianity as well as encouragement and instruction for Christian people and seekers.

Who is the message board intended for?
This message board is publicly open to anyone who wishes to register and participate in discussions, however it is ultimately intended for a specific audience. It is intended to serve as a place for:

Sincere seekers to inquire and ask questions;
Christians to give and receive encouragement and instruction; and
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This board is not a place to proclaim the key Bible books to be false.
Continuing to do so, will result in your restriction to further post.

B. W. wrote: Song 5:10 "My beloved is dazzling (bright as in energetic) and ruddy (brown as in skin color), Outstanding among ten thousand." NASB
After reading Lost's post and odd quote from the KJV of Song 5:10 KJV regading the word translated white - well - stick with the original word meanings and context and not racist rants that twist the scripture...
The Beloved had brown skin color and the reference to white concerns his male energy or testosterone induced energy that the Song of Solomon indicates between a bride and bride groom...

You are the one with "racist rants" who is "twisting scripture".
Anti-white "racist rants" I might add - by denying true, original Biblical descriptions of the ancient Israelites.
Nowhere in the NASB version of the Bible does it say: "brown as in skin colour".
Not only that, but anyone knows the English definition of ruddy is: red, or rosy complexion - NOT BROWN!!!
Get a new, or old English dictionary and see for yourself!!!
HOW ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH CAN 'RUDDY' MEAN 'BROWN'?!!!
IF THAT IS NOT DISTORTING SCRIPTURE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!!

Before I go into the original Hebrew words and definitions, let me remind you that although not perfect, the 1611 KJV preceded the NASB (as well as hate speech laws and political correctness and the civil rights movement which more modern Bibles adhere to via their perversions of scripture). Many modern versions of the Bible have used the pretext of "better understandings", in more "modern English" language in order to distort the truth. This of course, besides being nti-white and racist has many advantages for them. For example, by painting ancient Israel as a mixed race people, it makes the Bible "appeal to a wider audience". Much like politicians do to get more votes.
Here is the proof:

While the word 'white' in the KJV can be translated "dazzling" in the original Hebrew, the original Hebrew definition ALSO says 'white' (and it also says 'bright').
(Pure logic should tell you in any case, that the colour brown, cannot be "bright" and "dazzling" - not like the colour white)
PS - The word 'brown' does NOT appear in this verse in the NASB bible, the KJV, or even any Hebrew definition.
So you are being extremely dishonest here by implying that!!!

The original Hebrew word for 'white' in this verse is:
6703 Tsach...; from 6705; dazzling, i.e. sunny, bright, (fig.) evident: clear, dry, plainly, white.
6705 Tsachach...; a prim root; to glare, i.e. be dazzling white:- be whiter.
[Source: Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew Chaldee and Greek dictionaries. (2 inch thick, maroon colour, print edition). By James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D. Riverside Book and Bible House, Iowa Falls, Iowa]
i.e So white in body, so as to dazzle!!!
I say 'in body', because 'ruddy' here clearly means in body (as proven below) and this would seem to indicate that 'dazzling white' would also be in body. (not "energetic" as you claim.)

Ruddy, a., & v.t. & i. (Of face or its owner) freshly or healthily red, rosy, (r. health, youth, &c., marked by ruddiness); (of light, fire, sky, object lighted up, &c., also in animal names as r.plover, squirrel) reddish; (slang) bloody, damnable; hence ru.ddily2 adv., ru.ddiness n. (Vb) make or grow r. [OE rudig(rud see RUDD,-Y2]
[Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English, Third edition, 1934]
I suspect modern dictionaries will give a similiar definition.

The Hebrew definition / translation:
Ruddy is translated: 122 'adom aw-dome'; from 119; rosy:-red, ruddy.
119 'adam, aw-dawm'; to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy: be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
[Source: Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew Chaldee and Greek dictionaries. (2 inch thick, maroon colour, print edition). By James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D. Riverside Book and Bible House, Iowa Falls, Iowa]

You will notice that when you look up the word 'Adam' in Hebrew (as in Adam and Eve) you will also get 119 as per above. (Strongs Concordance numbers each word of the Bible with unique numbers next to the full definition of the word.)

Who is the one with "racist rants" now?
It is the epitome of racism to distort words of the Bible to hide white racial charactaristics and then on top of that, to then accuse someone else of making "racist rants" by quoting those same verses in their true, original, undistorted form.

1over137, I agree not to denounce the books of Paul as a lie any further - even if I have proof of that. (proof in my opinion, which may not be proof in your opinion).
What is the punishment for deliberately distorting words from the Bible like BW is trying to do above?

LT, why are you hung up on racial APPEARANCE at all? Of course, it appears that you think God favors people based upon RACE or their bloodline. True? Do you believe that race has ANYTHING to do with whether or not a man can come to saving faith and belief in Christ?

LostTribesNotLost wrote:

B. W. wrote: Song 5:10 "My beloved is dazzling (bright as in energetic) and ruddy (brown as in skin color), Outstanding among ten thousand." NASB
After reading Lost's post and odd quote from the KJV of Song 5:10 KJV regading the word translated white - well - stick with the original word meanings and context and not racist rants that twist the scripture...
The Beloved had brown skin color and the reference to white concerns his male energy or testosterone induced energy that the Song of Solomon indicates between a bride and bride groom...

You are the one with "racist rants" who is "twisting scripture".
Anti-white "racist rants" I might add - by denying true, original Biblical descriptions of the ancient Israelites.
Nowhere in the NASB version of the Bible does it say: "brown as in skin colour".
Not only that, but anyone knows the English definition of ruddy is: red, or rosy complexion - NOT BROWN!!!
Get a new, or old English dictionary and see for yourself!!!
HOW ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH CAN 'RUDDY' MEAN 'BROWN'?!!!
IF THAT IS NOT DISTORTING SCRIPTURE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!!

Before I go into the original Hebrew words and definitions, let me remind you that although not perfect, the 1611 KJV preceded the NASB (as well as hate speech laws and political correctness and the civil rights movement which more modern Bibles adhere to via their perversions of scripture). Many modern versions of the Bible have used the pretext of "better understandings", in more "modern English" language in order to distort the truth. This of course, besides being nti-white and racist has many advantages for them. For example, by painting ancient Israel as a mixed race people, it makes the Bible "appeal to a wider audience". Much like politicians do to get more votes.
Here is the proof:

While the word 'white' in the KJV can be translated "dazzling" in the original Hebrew, the original Hebrew definition ALSO says 'white' (and it also says 'bright').
(Pure logic should tell you in any case, that the colour brown, cannot be "bright" and "dazzling" - not like the colour white)
PS - The word 'brown' does NOT appear in this verse in the NASB bible, the KJV, or even any Hebrew definition.
So you are being extremely dishonest here by implying that!!!

The original Hebrew word for 'white' in this verse is:
6703 Tsach...; from 6705; dazzling, i.e. sunny, bright, (fig.) evident: clear, dry, plainly, white.
6705 Tsachach...; a prim root; to glare, i.e. be dazzling white:- be whiter.
[Source: Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew Chaldee and Greek dictionaries. (2 inch thick, maroon colour, print edition). By James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D. Riverside Book and Bible House, Iowa Falls, Iowa]
i.e So white in body, so as to dazzle!!!
I say 'in body', because 'ruddy' here clearly means in body (as proven below) and this would seem to indicate that 'dazzling white' would also be in body. (not "energetic" as you claim.)

Ruddy, a., & v.t. & i. (Of face or its owner) freshly or healthily red, rosy, (r. health, youth, &c., marked by ruddiness); (of light, fire, sky, object lighted up, &c., also in animal names as r.plover, squirrel) reddish; (slang) bloody, damnable; hence ru.ddily2 adv., ru.ddiness n. (Vb) make or grow r. [OE rudig(rud see RUDD,-Y2]
[Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English, Third edition, 1934]
I suspect modern dictionaries will give a similiar definition.

The Hebrew definition / translation:
Ruddy is translated: 122 'adom aw-dome'; from 119; rosy:-red, ruddy.
119 'adam, aw-dawm'; to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy: be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
[Source: Strongs Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew Chaldee and Greek dictionaries. (2 inch thick, maroon colour, print edition). By James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D. Riverside Book and Bible House, Iowa Falls, Iowa]

You will notice that when you look up the word 'Adam' in Hebrew (as in Adam and Eve) you will also get 119 as per above. (Strongs Concordance numbers each word of the Bible with unique numbers next to the full definition of the word.)

Who is the one with "racist rants" now?
It is the epitome of racism to distort words of the Bible to hide white racial charactaristics and then on top of that, to then accuse someone else of making "racist rants" by quoting those same verses in their true, original, undistorted form.

1over137, I agree not to denounce the books of Paul as a lie any further - even if I have proof of that. (proof in my opinion, which may not be proof in your opinion).
What is the punishment for deliberately distorting words from the Bible like BW is trying to do above?

Lost, I work with Native Americans and their skin tone is brown, not red. Only an Anglo Saxon who has been out in the sun far to long turns red and that red is called sunburn and is very unpleasant.

As for the Song of Solomon... I don't attempt to spiritualize it as some folks do. As one pastor told me over 25 years ago in pre-marriage advise, was that newly weds should read this book out loud to each other during the first week of marriage.... Good advise...

Let me paraphrase the entire book for you...

Guy: Wow, she looks hot...

Gal: Oh my gosh, he looks white hot ... huba huba ...

Girlfriends: You need to hook that catch...

Guy: Hey sweat mamma you look'in fine talk to me baby 900 style...

Gal: You are a hunka, hunka of burn'n love...

Guy and Gal: Let's get married! Yeah baby now ya talk'in... let's not wait TOO LONG...

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Well, I think that whoever reads this gets the gist of the Song of Solomon... It is all about Spark'in

White Hot is an expression still used today and that idiom was used in the text in question and the context is a man and a woman in love...for each other... and spark'in with each other. If you don't know what spark'in is - well read the Song on your wedding night...

Now back to more serious matters, Lost, you mentioned the KJV only and yet, it is full of errors in its translation as well. Let me post the actual 1611 version for you and if it is the only version that is the most accurate, then why did the spelling change?

1611 KJV Song of Solomon chapter 1:1-2

1 The song of songs, which is Solomons.

2 Let him kisse mee with the kisses of his mouth: for thy Loue is better then wine.3 Because of the sauour of thy good ointments, thy name is as ointment powred forth, therefore doe the virgins loue thee.

Next...

Gen 1:1-2,18-19+ 1611 KJV, 1 In the beginning God created the Heauen, and the Earth.2 And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deepe: and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters...18 And to rule ouer the day, and ouer the night, and to diuide the light from the darkenesse: and God saw that it was good.19 And the euening and the morning were the fourth day.

Next...

John 3:11-16, 11 Uerely, verely I say vnto thee, We speake that we doe know, and testifie that wee haue seene; and yee receiue not our witnesse. 12 If I haue tolde you earthly things, and ye beleeue not: how shall ye beleeue if I tell you of heauenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended vp to heauen, but hee that came downe from heauen, euen the Sonne of man which is in heauen.4 And as Moses lifted vp the serpent in the wildernesse: euen so must the Sonne of man be lifted vp: 15 That whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue eternall life.16 For God so loued þe world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

If the KJV is the only true translation, why did it change? Lost, you, if you read the modern 1800 to current date translated KJV, you are reading a corrupted text like the rest of us. So, sinner and blasphemer lighten the heck up and get a grip on life. God's grace is Good and you need a good dose now!!!

Jesus did not speak Olde 1611 Englishe. He spoke Hebrew and most likely Greek too according to Israel being in the middle of a trade route and used scripture quotations from the LXX.

Lastly, as for Race of men...

God made us all unique. All classes, all races, all are equal to each other and all very human. Every tribe and every tongue every nation are human beings, all equal and equally guilty of sin and all in need of a savior. You are in need of him too... like the rest of us.

Your obsession is with the BI and KJV onlyism. It is you that have true Idols because true idols are identified easily by what folks obsess over and yours have been identified by yourself. Please note that the Pharisees obsessed over the law and turned the holy things of God into idols and forgot God in the process. Look to yourself as you are heading down that same path now.

Have a good day...
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Philip, I have repeatedly explained my position on race to you.
Yet you continue ask me the same questions and accuse me of the same things.

Fact number 1) All races can be saved - if they accept Christ and try their best to keep His law and repent when breaking it.

Fact number 2) In the same breath however, Israel's descendands where prophesied special blessings above other races - purely due to the fact that Abraham and Israel (Jacob) followed Yahweh, when all other races at that time did not. They were also to be a light to the other races, which Christianity and Christian Europeans have fulfilled.
This however does not change fact number 1 (above) but it is still important to know in order to keep Gods commandments - even the non-Mosaic ones.
I have explained this in more detail in previous posts.

I hope you understand my position now, as this is the last time I will be explaining it to you - whether you believe me, or not.
I am only hung up on racial appearance when trying to prove who ancient Israel is now in this modern age - not when it comes to salvation.
It is important to be able to identify who modern Israel truly is due to fact number 2 above.
Identifying Israel today by their more ancient physical charactaristics described in the Bible may upset some people who are ovrly sensitive when it comes to race, but it is one of the methods used to prove who Israel is in this modern era. Other methods include, archeology (which I used in my very first post in this thread with orange street church), other methods include prophesy, which I have used, also in previous posts in this thread.

B.W. your reply to my post above has been weak at best and you have ignored key points I have made in disproving your made up ideas of the book of Song of Solomon.
You have still not explained where you get the word 'brown' from and how 'ruddy' can mean 'brown' - without any evidence!!!
The KJV was not my evidence, but rather the original Hebrew translation using Strong's concordance was what I used to verify what the KJV was saying in that particular verse. The KJV - in that particular verse - was not mistranslated at all. Any version of the Bible can be checked for accuracy in translation by translating the verse into the original Hebrew text using a reliable source like Strong's concordance and that is purely what I have done. However you seem to be making things up as you go along - and we are just supposed to accept what you are saying to be true - without any evidence at all!!!

Lastly, I never said Native Americans have a red skin tone (I don't know where you get that from).
White people, especially the youth, can and do often have a rosy complexion, without being sunburnt - so you are stretching the truth once again here - without any evidence.

LostTribesNotLost wrote:...B.W. your reply to my post above has been weak at best and you have ignored key points I have made in disproving your made up ideas of the book of Song of Solomon.
You have still not explained where you get the word 'brown' from and how 'ruddy' can mean 'brown' - without any evidence!!!
The KJV was not my evidence, but rather the original Hebrew translation using Strong's concordance was what I used to verify what the KJV was saying in that particular verse. The KJV - in that particular verse - was not mistranslated at all. Any version of the Bible can be checked for accuracy in translation by translating the verse into the original Hebrew text using a reliable source like Strong's concordance and that is purely what I have done. However you seem to be making things up as you go along - and we are just supposed to accept what you are saying to be true - without any evidence at all!!!

Lastly, I never said Native Americans have a red skin tone (I don't know where you get that from).
White people, especially the youth, can and do often have a rosy complexion, without being sunburnt - so you are stretching the truth once again here - without any evidence.

Simple, there are no actual red people out there in the world. The word Ruddy is used to denote the Red Heifer in Numbers 19:2. In 2 Kings 3:22, the Moabites saw the waters as blood Red (Ruddy) from the sun shining upon it. So the word Ruddy in the Hebrew denotes anything with a red hue in it. I was making a point, I have never seen any person whose skin tone was truly the color Red. Have you?

The Song of Solomon is not a book about race. It is a love song between a man and woman in love who are sparking with each other and have drawn an audience from their closest friends. Again, my point is that you are spiritualizing a book about 'sparking' romance - flirting between husband and wife. This book has nothing to do with race or justifying who the true Israelis are as you are making it out.

Verse 10 is not about race but about male vigor and looks of the kind that the female nature is attracted too. It can be read better as this: He his Dazzling Pure (A hot Hunk) and Red (Hot to trot): the most gorgeous hunk of man among men... That is what this verse is saying...

You need more than just the Strong's concordance to study ancient Hebrew. You need to note the context and know a little Hebrew metaphors. Not too difficult with the modern library available to us now from computer bible software and internet. I have studied Hebrew and Greek for over 30 years and I think I know what I am talking about as I had to learn it old school - before the computer and internet.

Too often folks spiritualize the Song of Solomon in many various ways some good but often bad too. I heard what you are conveying, Lost, before from other BI folks who use this to say that verse ten refers to white Europeans as being the superior pure race from among all the other races from the of blood of all humanity and thus are the true Jews demonstrated by superior white intelligence. Sorry, that does not wash. The Song of Solomon is best read between husband and wife so they commence to sparking with each each other (enough said on that topic or I maybe will embarrass other readers and have to ban myself).

In fact the bible is clear that Israel will, a second time, be regathered into there own land. This began 1917, hindered by Britian, and finally realized after WW2 and became a Nation in one day in May 1948 all just as clearly prophesied during the BC era. See:

Isa 11:11 KJV, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea."

Isa 66:8 KJV Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."

The Jewish people were dispersed into the nations and now are still being regathered into the Jewish homeland from afar. The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance and for you to claim Europeans as the true Israel makes God out as a liar. There is no way around that. BI is false. I do not see the Europeans flocking a second time returning to Israel as the bible says. God never replaced the Jewish people for if he did, then he cannot keep his word and therefore anything he said cannot be trusted. Against that backdrop you must contend, not I.

Now to explain the use of Native Americans - it was to make a point, the skin tone here is a reddish brown - more brown than red. If you desire that rending of Ruddy in verse ten, then the man looked more middle eastern than white European, period, that's the point. Or if we are to take it more literal level, saying that the use of white and red in text is about mixing of white and red which makes the color PINK. Thankfully there are no PINK people, that is a terrible color for a man. Women can look good dressed in pink but men - NOT. You really need to turn away from this BI stuff as it is so full of errors as a bucket shot with buckshot can carry no water.
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I find it hard to believe that you have never seen a white man blush, or be red in the face after vigorous exercise, or rosy cheeks being more common in some white people than others, especially the youth.

No, SoS is not a book about race, but that doesn't mean it does not contain racial / facial characteristics / desriptions as all nations have described themselves in their poetry throughout history in every culture on earth!!! That does not mean they are obsessed with it as you like to imply, while you are hypocritically obsessed with the Jewish race and defending Zionism at all costs judging by your posts in other threads.

Lamentations 4:7 Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:

The very Hebrew definition of Ruddy in Hebrew: "to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy" - what more evidence do you need of a white complection with the ability to "turn rosy" / "flush in the face"?!!!

There is now enough evidence from this denial of obvious facts and your other posts defending zionist hate crimes in Palestine that you are most likely, like your moderator colleagues on here, and as others on here have noticed too, like Melanie, who has already accused your colleagues - of being an ultra-zionist supremacists in my opinion masquerading as Christians.

YOU are the hate mongers and obsessors with the modern 'Jewish' race and defending the indefendable, hypocritical state of Israel and her never ending war crimes and human right violators. Yet you have the damn cheek to accuse others.
Christ said, you will know them by their fruit, just as He knew the hypocritical Pharisee Zionist murderers by theirs.
To this day the Jews in Israel have laws against race mixing / intermarriage with other races (laws for themselves) and yet hypocritically, they themselves are a mixed race people.

We are now starting to understand your fruit, as your denial of truth and persistant lies becomes more and more obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes and see.

Well Mr. LostTribes,

Congratulations! This last post has won you a 1 week vacation! We are so enamored by your last post, that we are in the process of making your vacation permanent.

To everyone here who had to put up with this garbage, I personally apologize. Against my better judgement, I was the one who chose to approve the original post by LostTribes.

Don't worry, Rick. I know I didn't read much of anything he wrote after his first post or two. I'd be surprised if too many others did, either, so the hassle was probably minimal at best.

I did read his last post, only because I wanted to see what finally sealed his fate. Quite a character there, isn't he? I didn't know you had to be nice and accepting of the idea that British people are the true Jews in order to be saved. Too bad for me, but at least it's good to know that you can get away with calling people murderers and hate mongers . . . so much for Matt 5:22.

Well, I needed a good laugh and Lost's last post sure gave me one!

That is a classic! A Ruddy Classic...

Not your fault Rick - it actually shows how wacky British Israelism really is!

Who ever thought that Solomon was writing about the British?
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Well, I needed a good laugh and Lost's last post sure gave me one!

That is a classic! A Ruddy Classic...

Not your fault Rick - it actually shows how wacky British Israelism really is!

Who ever thought that Solomon was writing about the British?

Sounds like some theological conclusion that Henry VIII would have come to. And what a pragmatist, that fellow: "Let's see, the Pope won't give me a divorce; And vast sums are leaving England for his Roman coffers... I KNOW what to do!" Two birds and one stone, etc.

RickD wrote:Well Mr. LostTribes,

Congratulations! This last post has won you a 1 week vacation! We are so enamored by your last post, that we are in the process of making your vacation permanent.

To everyone here who had to put up with this garbage, I personally apologize. Against my better judgement, I was the one who chose to approve the original post by LostTribes.

Thanks Rick, it was quite suffocating reading his posts. I was actually going to post that we should probably show him the door. Lol.

Wowsers, how did I get dragged into this? Just to clarify I have never accussed anyone on here of such a thing!
Anyways I hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year

melanie wrote:Wowsers, how did I get dragged into this? Just to clarify I have never accussed anyone on here of such a thing!
Anyways I hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year

Don't worry Melanie, we know. LostTribes has misrepresented pretty much everyone here.