Evidence for God from Science

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:I believe a person has the right to have a gun for self defense of their life and family however I'm not driven by fear or for hoping to have to use it,I'm not blood thirsty just because I would blow somebody away if they came into my house trying to do harm and in America it would be poetic justice and it would not be murder in the eyes of God. Was it murder in the eyes of God when David slew Goliath? No,the bible even says there is a time to kill. We are not the bad guys some of you are trying to make us out to be,it is the criminals that are the bad guys. I think there is a cultural difference also and so it is hard to understand America and our right to bear arms.

Having a right does not mean it's right tho

Abe, by 'blowing someone away'..is your aim to stop them or just kill them

Hypothetical question that cannot be answered,it depends on the situation however if you must shoot,it is best to shoot to kill,because they cannot try to sue you for hospital bills. It is a split second decision when a person is in a situation like that.This is not looking for somebody to shoot so don't think of it like that,this is for self defense.

Uh, I would rather be sued than take a life..

Really? Thugs come in your house to do you and your family harm and you be sued for hospital bills?

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:I believe a person has the right to have a gun for self defense of their life and family however I'm not driven by fear or for hoping to have to use it,I'm not blood thirsty just because I would blow somebody away if they came into my house trying to do harm and in America it would be poetic justice and it would not be murder in the eyes of God. Was it murder in the eyes of God when David slew Goliath? No,the bible even says there is a time to kill. We are not the bad guys some of you are trying to make us out to be,it is the criminals that are the bad guys. I think there is a cultural difference also and so it is hard to understand America and our right to bear arms.

Having a right does not mean it's right tho

Abe, by 'blowing someone away'..is your aim to stop them or just kill them

Hypothetical question that cannot be answered,it depends on the situation however if you must shoot,it is best to shoot to kill,because they cannot try to sue you for hospital bills. It is a split second decision when a person is in a situation like that.This is not looking for somebody to shoot so don't think of it like that,this is for self defense.

Uh, I would rather be sued than take a life..

Really? Thugs come in your house to do you and your family harm and you be sued for hospital bills?

Its called loving your enemies...I may not like it...I may not want to...but that is just the hard reality of being a christian. We arent suppose to be out to please ourselves...but to take up our cross daily..

Feeling like a bit of a hypocrite saying that but its true.

Besides, didnt we do far worse to jesus...and he did a little bit more than pay a few medical bills to save us...

Just wondering if anyone here has ever had an intruder in their house? (besides mother-in-law )

Lol @ mother in law comment...

On a serious note, I know someone who went to my old church who had a home intruder and she got raped. She ended up sharing the gospel with him afterwards.

She is not the emotional type but when she spoke about it in church, she broke down. Tho managed to keep going. Maybe she should of just shot the guy and sent him straight to hell.

Listen, I well know how to aim and shoot. But That doesn't mean I don't HUGELY respect them. You guys are so simplistic in how you think more gun laws are going to change the already long-existing USA weapons situation. Yes, an unsecured gun in a house with kids is extremely dangerous. Mine is in a safe place. But you guys also don't get it that a number of key accompanying factors make guns in a home far more likely to become an unfortunate statistic. Alcoholism, physical abuse, drug abuse, depression, mental illness, severe financial situations, spouses who physically fight or where one of the two (or both) is unstable, unsecured guns - each of these greatly change the safety factor. Add in multiples of such factors ... well. I have lived much of my life in the city suburbs, where most people at least had one gun. NEVER have I had ANY neighbors on the surrounding streets who have even fired a gun at someone, much less killed anyone. AND WHERE I've lived, this has been - by FAR - the reality. But I've not lived in crime or drug-infested neighborhoods either. I do have an alcoholic neighbor who accidentally discharged a shotgun loaded with birdshot while she was apparently drunk - no, I wouldn't want a gun in that house. And no gun laws (outside of confiscating already owned guns), that aren't already on the books is going to change this.

Point is, the gun fatalities due to the types of co-present variables above reveals the unrealistic expectations of the supposed power of stricter gun laws alone, certainly without eliminating ALL other avenues of gun acquisitions AND other associated high-risk factors (noted above).

Also, you don't have to be a gun expert to defend yourself - if someone is breaking in, merely firing warning shot may well frighten a thug off. At close range (see, in your house), you don't need to be a crack shot to stop someone (which is the only point at which I'd shoot someone). Someone has seen too many westerns. A HUGE amount of people have weapons who next to never use them. But they are there if they need them.

Enough of THIS!

Enough of what? Of sharing a different opinion other than yours?

If you personally have had enough then just let others continue and the thread will eventually die out.

Or do you mean something else?

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote: Having a right does not mean it's right tho

Abe, by 'blowing someone away'..is your aim to stop them or just kill them

Hypothetical question that cannot be answered,it depends on the situation however if you must shoot,it is best to shoot to kill,because they cannot try to sue you for hospital bills. It is a split second decision when a person is in a situation like that.This is not looking for somebody to shoot so don't think of it like that,this is for self defense.

Uh, I would rather be sued than take a life..

Really? Thugs come in your house to do you and your family harm and you be sued for hospital bills?

Its called loving your enemies...I may not like it...I may not want to...but that is just the hard reality of being a christian. We arent suppose to be out to please ourselves...but to take up our cross daily..

Feeling like a bit of a hypocrite saying that but its true.

The thing is though is I do not see any reason biblically to think that way.I know the bible well enough to know that Christ did not tell us to be door matts that people just walk over and biblically we have the right to defend ourselves whether people do or not is one thing but Christ does not want us to be door matts.The bible does not say you cannot defend your self or you should allow yourself to be killed and you just have to let them do it.This is not biblical and it is not being Christ-like because we are not perfect and are not dying for the sin of the world.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Hypothetical question that cannot be answered,it depends on the situation however if you must shoot,it is best to shoot to kill,because they cannot try to sue you for hospital bills. It is a split second decision when a person is in a situation like that.This is not looking for somebody to shoot so don't think of it like that,this is for self defense.

Uh, I would rather be sued than take a life..

Really? Thugs come in your house to do you and your family harm and you be sued for hospital bills?

Its called loving your enemies...I may not like it...I may not want to...but that is just the hard reality of being a christian. We arent suppose to be out to please ourselves...but to take up our cross daily..

Feeling like a bit of a hypocrite saying that but its true.

The thing is though is I do not see any reason biblically to think that way.I know the bible well enough to know that Christ did not tell us to be door matts that people just walk over and biblically we have the right to defend ourselves whether people do or not is one thing but Christ does not want us to be door matts.The bible does not say you cannot defend your self or you should allow yourself to be killed and you just have to let them do it.This is not biblical and it is not being Christ-like because we are not perfect and are not dying for the sin of the world.

Matthew 5:40
Luke 6:29,30

No one is saying we don't have a right to defend ourselves - but rather how we go about defending ourselves is the issue at hand.

Sometimes we are called to let someone 'walk all over us', other times we are called to use tough love. Wasn't Jesus walked over at certain times? We can easily walk over his grace and then not extend that grace to others when they offend us.

Oh and why are you bringing Matt into this

And yes, at times we should let ourselves be killed. Martyrdom.

ACB, your words that you don't have a murderous spirit contradicts what Scripture says of us.
That, you'd much rather kill someone who "slaps your cheek" rather than turn the other and risk being sued reveals much.

Jesus' teachings are hard to follow.
Love your enemies as yourself.
Pray for those who persecute you.

I strongly feel that if someone raped my daughter, I'd really need help not to kill them.
I'd want to cut them bit by bit and make them feel their pain.
Any justice meted out by law wouldn't be good enough for me.
I pray such never occurs.

And yet, I know what Christ would have me do.
The only barrier between me carrying through with my own hatred, would be focusing completely on Christ.
It is Christ who might have a chance of disarming me, and simply surrendering it up to Him.

If I wasn't a Christian, then my decision would be easy.
AND, if I wasn't Christian and someone entered my home to rob or steal, without question, I'd shoot to kill the prick.
I'd feel justified in doing so. You come into my home to wrong me, that's what you get! And I wouldn't want to be sued either.

BUT, Christ teaches something else and I've made Him my Lord.
Who will I submit to and serve, myself or Christ?

Kurieuo wrote:ACB, your words that you don't have a murderous spirit contradicts what Scripture says of us.
That, you'd much rather kill someone who "slaps your cheek" rather than turn the other and risk being sued reveals much.

Jesus' teachings are hard to follow.
Love your enemies as yourself.
Pray for those who persecute you.

I strongly feel that if someone raped my daughter, I'd really need help not to kill them.
I'd want to cut them bit by bit and make them feel their pain.
Any justice meted out by law wouldn't be good enough for me.
I pray such never occurs.

And yet, I know what Christ would have me do.
The only barrier between me carrying through with my own hatred, would be focusing completely on Christ.
It is Christ who might have a chance of disarming me, and simply surrendering it up to Him.

If I wasn't a Christian, then my decision would be easy.
AND, if I wasn't Christian and someone entered my home to rob or steal, without question, I'd shoot to kill the prick.
I'd feel justified in doing so. You come into my home to wrong me, that's what you get!

BUT, Christ teaches something else and I've made Him my Lord.
Who will I submit to and serve, myself or Christ?

You are totally wrong. Nobody can kill somebody because they slap you or punch you at the very least I'm going to try to move,block it,etc. I used to be a black belt in Tae Kwon Do It seems that there is a very big misunderstanding about what self defense means when it comes to guns. Somehow you all think I'm ready to blow somebody away for being mean to me. You're just not getting it. You all somehow think I don't have any love for my enemies,don't pray for them and that I want to shoot them but you are 100% totally wrong about me and nothing I have said should give you that impression.

I'll say it again if thugs comes into my house trying to harm me and my family I will blow them away if I have to to protect my family and I will know that I did the right thing and it is not murder in the eyes of God and full justice.

You said though, that if an intruder was there to harm you or your family, that you'd shoot to kill rather than injure because you wouldn't want to be sued afterwards?

I didn't mean to offend. Really, I don't think if it came down to it, that many here (as much as they even own a gun for protection) would pull that trigger to kill. I know you guys are strong Christians, and as such would imagine we would all have a similar strong inner conflict in that moment.

We have the misunderstanding about guns and self defence or do you?
I am not judging you, I just dont agree with how you see guns and how you see your enemy regarding this situation.

I am not saying that you are gun happy or loveless with your enemies. We all have areas where we struggle to love certain people