Shulgin wrote:Oh Boy,
The comments are typical of what I would have expected. The bottom line is that its not only the evolutionists that have a hard time explaining things, such as altruistic love, so do theologists. The evolutionists tho mostly progress based on fact and experimentation. With that in mind its very likely that evolution will never be proved, it is just a theory after all. As for god, unless he makes an appearance, that question will always be a theory as well. Just because we can't explain altruistic love right now, doesn't necessarily imply it came from a divine being.
Sure does make a better explanation than they have currently.
As for chemical reactions, the information we have about them results from science and experimentation, not from the bible. We know a lot about the physical nature of the universe, but it doesn't come from the bible. Instead we get from that document arcane and obscure ancient references that people are still trying to make heads or tails of to this day.
YOu love to imply that we are simply stupid ignorant CHristians, sitting here searching through the Bible hoping it will tell us how molecules came to be. None of us here expect such an answer. Genesis tells of the power, glory, and majesty of the Creator, not the mechanisms through which He created, only that it was created by Him and because of His power. Most here are Old Earth, progressive creationists who understand that scientific study offers much for us with respect to understanding the physical world.
Let me return the favor and imply that you are ignorant of the bible. There is a welath of understanding of this "arcane and obscure" book concerning how to understanding people and our actions and how to respond.
It seems to me that a god would do a bit more for people that leave behid that document as the primary (and arguably only) guide for us. It is interesting that a rapist was brought up in defense of your case Zoegirl, telling perhaps?
Well, let me refresh your memory as to the CONTEXT of my comment.
zoegirl wrote:Yes, but that's YOUR philosophy. The rapist down the road believes it his right to rape. And he certainly lives for the day, and lives his life with no regrets. After all, his continues to rape knowing that he might very well be caught.
The implication is that without a moral right or wrong we have no way to establist that his rape is something that he shouldn't do. In fact, if that allows him to procreate more than the man down the street who doesn't "live life to the fullest" with "no regrets", then by all means, rape will allow the rapist to reproduce more. Anthropologists believe that rape was a crucial part in human evolution, so why is it wrong now? (other than the fact that society now condemns it)...so if it changes in a thousand years, it won't be wrong?
shulgin wrote:]
It is well known that christianity is a reward based system. Many people "become" christians because thats the religion they are indoctrinated into, they don't choose it per se so they don't burn in hell. In christianity you do god's will and go to heaven, don't and you go to hell. Reward/punishment.
No, again, clearly you reveal your ignorancce of CHristian doctrine. Our good works cannot get us into heaven . I used the rapist to point out that there is something needed in life to guide us beyond living life with no regrets.
I had a feeling you guys would jump on my life philosophy, and it is just my philosophy. My point is that you can do good things and love people just because it makes you feel good. Zoegirl is twisting what I meant. I don't do nice things to make myself feel good. I do it because it feels good.
HOw are we JUMPING? YOu came here and asserted your philosophy, why aren't we allowed to assert and argue back? We are asking questiosn that delve into this philosophy. DOn't come here and expect us to go "wow, guess we'll just remain quiet"
So essentially your altruism isn't really altruism, you do things Because it makes YOU feel good. It is based upon your selfish desires. So if YOU don't get a REWARD, then what?Q!??!? Seems to me that your philosophy is just a reward system.
When I do something wrong it doesn't make me feel good.
So what about the times that you KNOW that you shouldn't do something and yet you do it.
What about the times that you know you SHOULD do something and you DOn't do it.
And Zoegirl, I do know about chrisitanity, I was raised catholic and that cured me good.
With respect, from what oyu have said, you don't understand the CHristian doctrine. YOu belive that doing good is what gets you into heaven. That is NOT what scripture says.
Zoegirl, you are enlightened, but millions upon millions have live their lives in fear of burning in hell, the whole hellfire and brimstone thing. They are around you now too.
I know, I am saddened by this. THis is why we have the great commission from Jesus to explain the gospel, the true Gospel. That is why we should read and pour over scripture, that we might teach what is truly refelcted in scripture.
Zoegirl, don't project your behavior on me, you have no idea how I react when I've had a tough day and I let someone in front of my car that may be being a jerk. Perhaps its what I do to get myself out of my funk and bring myself joy. The same can be said of christians by the way, they don't always do whats right either.
Oh come on, don;t you understand the use of an illustration? Perhaps you are a great driver and don't get into annoyed little mind games with the driver ahead of you. Pick something else. YOu can't stand when people ________. YOu get annoyed when __________.
I never said that Christians do what's right. And unless you are perfect, there ARE times when you SHOULD do something and you don't. There ARE times when you shouldn't do something and yet you do (like imply that we are just the same old ignorant Christians). So unless you are perfect
As for morality, I don't know. I don't think morality and religious belief are inexorably linked. But just because I can't answer why I do good things and don't trample on people, doesn't mean its because of god. I am open minded enough to wait for either god to appear and explain it to me or science to produce a satisfactory explanation that stands up to the rigors of science.
BTW the bible does say ask and you shall recieve. So if your devout leader of the church, truly, honestly prays once for the church to never be struck by lightning, then by god's own word in the bible (in several places) it won't be struck. So why don't all pastors, priests, etc. pray for this and eliminate the need for lightning rods on their churches? One explanation is that prays are never answered, they are all coincidences.
Well, who's to say He hasn't
The absence of evidence doesn't make it not so. The very nature of your argument can mean that He has answered that prayer and we would never know.
By the Way, the same scripture also shows that God doesn't always answer prayers immeidately or with what we expect. Joseph had to wait many, many years to be delivered from prison. Jacob had to wait for his wife. Job had to wait. Paul was told no to request to have the thorn removed. "My grace is sufficient for you". Israel had to wait to be delivered form the Egyptians. Israel had to wait to be delivered from being held captive. Israel had to wait in the time of Judges. God answers prayers bu in His time and in His good plan. (Oh, but wait, this Arcane document can't help us understand the world at all!
If you are going to use scripture understand that you cannot take bits and pieces to make a conclusion, after all a good scientist can't do that with the data, you must understand the Bible in context...this is a huge problem with many of the arguments atheists use....they live to cherry-pick their scripture)
I have a chronic illness. I have prayed over and over to have it healed. Does that fact that I still have it mean that God didn't hear (or answer) my prayer? My prayer have also changed....I also pray for grace, comfort, humility, sympathy, empathy for others.
Do we walk out into the street without looking because of some naive understanding of God's creation? God has established His physical laws. Will He protect us? Sure....But are we to understand these physical laws? Ansolutely. We are not to flippantly build a bridge with flawed understanding of physics because of some ridiculous notion that God's going to break HIs own laws to cancel out our stupidity. Does the ise of a lightening rod make sense? Absolutely.
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