"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
yep, that's what I was getting at...cslewislover wrote:Someone here confessed to me that he spoke in tongues falsely in church, just because the people there expected it. I'm sure others do that too. Anyway, those there did not know he faked it.zoegirl wrote:So in your church, everyone who speaks in tongues is doing so genuinely...
Zoe,zoegirl wrote:So in your church, everyone who speaks in tongues is doing so genuinely...
No, cs, I just wanted Freddie to answer my question. Just repeating myself in case he missed my first post.cslewislover wrote:Rick, is this some kind of double post mistake? Or did you think you wrote something, but it didn't post for some reason? I can remove this if you want (you can do that with your original too).RickD wrote:RickD wrote:Fred, are YOU saying that a "believer" won't know "what the Holy Spirit is" unless he/she speaks in tongues?FredFlanders wrote:Zoegirl,zoegirl wrote:Fred, how do you judge whether someon'es "tongues" are genuine? and from the spirit? Does anyone who just speak gibberish and then proclaim it to be from God now qualify as being filled with the Spirit?
When a believer speaks in tongues they will know what the Holy Spirit is. They will not have to be told what the Holy Spiritis.
Fred.
FredFlanders wrote: What about reading your Bible and answering these Questions?
Paul believed in Jesus when he saw the light from heaven on the way to Damascus and but did he receive the Holy Spirit then?
If the Apostles refused Jesus' command (Acts 1) to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit and went to another town would have they received the Holy Spirit?
Did the people of Samaria that had been healed, been baptized, believed in Christ have the Holy Spirit before Peter and John had prayed with them??
Acts 8 v 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. 14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Fred
Gman wrote:FredFlanders wrote: What about reading your Bible and answering these Questions?
Paul believed in Jesus when he saw the light from heaven on the way to Damascus and but did he receive the Holy Spirit then?
If the Apostles refused Jesus' command (Acts 1) to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit and went to another town would have they received the Holy Spirit?
Did the people of Samaria that had been healed, been baptized, believed in Christ have the Holy Spirit before Peter and John had prayed with them??
Acts 8 v 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. 14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Fred
It can be a confusing topic because there are two different cases of it.
1) The occasion of Speaking in Tongues on Pentecost was done by the Holy Spirit (supernaturally)...One voice, but everyone heard it in their own language...it cannot be duplicated or manufactured by mere mortal men. Acts 2:4.
Why was this given?
a) To reveal the power of God. Act 2: 11, 12.
b) To reverse the work at the tower of Babel where God confounded man's language due to their rebellion. Gen. 11:9. Basically at the tower of Babel God split man apart via languages, at Pentecost he unites them once again (under the Holy Spirit this time).
2) Another occasion of Speaking in tongues is merely a gift of God that allows a person to accurately interpret another language. Some people have a natural ability to pick up other languages. As an example take the savant Daniel Tammet. "Tammet was challenged to learn Icelandic in one week. Seven days later he appeared on Icelandic television conversing in Icelandic, with his Icelandic language instructor saying it was "not human" and "genius!"
Why was it given?
a) Mainly to spread the word of God to other nations. 1 Cor. 14:22
b) To reveal the works of the Holy Spirit.
Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Fred, we read our bible here . . . have you bothered to read any other part of the site? Or, do you just read your own posts, telling people how it is, people who study the bible . . . In all the other places on this site, where I quote the Bible, I suppose you think I didn't read it? BW quotes the bible more than anyone here, I think, and yet I suppose you don't think he actually reads what he writes?FredFlanders wrote:cslewislover wrote:How can we go on with Fred if he keeps judging, himself, that believers (believers that the Lord has clearly spoken to) here don't have the Spirit? It makes no sense.
What about reading your Bible and answering these Questions?
Paul never describes all of his Spiritual experiences, which I'm sure could take up a very large book. He was humble and didn't talk about them much. A lot of people here are like that too. Why are you asking about the Apostles like that? That's just strange. Why wouldn't they have waited? And why would God's plan be thwarted if they didn't?Paul believed in Jesus when he saw the light from heaven on the way to Damascus and but did he receive the Holy Spirit then?
If the Apostles refused Jesus' command (Acts 1) to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit and went to another town would have they received the Holy Spirit?
Do a lot of people now receive the Holy Spirit as soon as they believe? I'm not sure (but most pastors say yes, they do). But I know that me or anyone else doesn't need to wait for Peter and John to come back from the dead and lay hands on us. We don't need a person to do anything - it's God that does it.Did the people of Samaria that had been healed, been baptized, believed in Christ have the Holy Spirit before Peter and John had prayed with them??
Acts 8 v 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. 14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Fred
Gman, do you mean rephrase your question, or refrain from questioning?Gman wrote:Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Paul believed in Jesus when he saw the light from heaven on the way to Damascus and but did he receive the Holy Spirit then?Gman wrote:Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Or revise.. Refraining might come later..RickD wrote:Gman, do you mean rephrase your question, or refrain from questioning?Gman wrote:Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Gman wrote:Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Did you mean to refrain from asking questions, or reframe his question?One can only hope.........Gman wrote:Or revise.. Refraining might come later..RickD wrote:Gman, do you mean rephrase your question, or refrain from questioning?Gman wrote:Then refrain your question..FredFlanders wrote: Gman that does not answer the questions I have asked at all.
Fred.
Both...cslewislover wrote:
cslewislover wrote:Fred, we read our bible here . . . have you bothered to read any other part of the site? Or, do you just read your own posts, telling people how it is, people who study the bible . . . In all the other places on this site, where I quote the Bible, I suppose you think I didn't read it? BW quotes the bible more than anyone here, I think, and yet I suppose you don't think he actually reads what he writes?FredFlanders wrote:cslewislover wrote:How can we go on with Fred if he keeps judging, himself, that believers (believers that the Lord has clearly spoken to) here don't have the Spirit? It makes no sense.
What about reading your Bible and answering these Questions?
Paul never describes all of his Spiritual experiences, which I'm sure could take up a very large book. He was humble and didn't talk about them much. A lot of people here are like that too. Why are you asking about the Apostles like that? That's just strange. Why wouldn't they have waited? And why would God's plan be thwarted if they didn't?Paul believed in Jesus when he saw the light from heaven on the way to Damascus and but did he receive the Holy Spirit then?
If the Apostles refused Jesus' command (Acts 1) to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit and went to another town would have they received the Holy Spirit?
Do a lot of people now receive the Holy Spirit as soon as they believe? I'm not sure (but most pastors say yes, they do). But I know that me or anyone else doesn't need to wait for Peter and John to come back from the dead and lay hands on us. We don't need a person to do anything - it's God that does it.Did the people of Samaria that had been healed, been baptized, believed in Christ have the Holy Spirit before Peter and John had prayed with them??
Acts 8 v 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. 14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Fred
Again, we now don't need Peter and John to lay hands on us. They're not here. I don't see a speaking in tongues situation going on here, either.