Evidence for God from Science

neo-x wrote:

Not works love. Works do not get you saved. Jesus dying for our sins does. What are works anyway? Spouting hate about Gay people?

That's really naive of you. Love is no love if it is not in action, so work will have to be the medium, still, a work is an act. How else do you show your love, without action?

Accepting Jesus means you are saved. No works are involved. Loving is a result of Gods love not a requirement for salvation.

Widge on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:52 pm

neo-x wrote:
Not works love. Works do not get you saved. Jesus dying for our sins does. What are works anyway? Spouting hate about Gay people?


That's really naive of you. Love is no love if it is not in action, so work will have to be the medium, still, a work is an act. How else do you show your love, without action?


Accepting Jesus means you are saved. No works are involved. Loving is a result of Gods love not a requirement for salvation.

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

Neo, that is a contradiction if I've ever seen one. Please lay out the Christian code of conduct. I really grow so tired of hearing some say, there are no requirements, and then in the same breath say there are, which is EXACLTY what you are doing here.

Do you know what the Kingdom of God refers to? The Word Kingdom occurs in the bible hundreds of times.

neo-x wrote:No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

neo-x wrote:

Widge on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:52 pm

neo-x wrote:
Not works love. Works do not get you saved. Jesus dying for our sins does. What are works anyway? Spouting hate about Gay people?


That's really naive of you. Love is no love if it is not in action, so work will have to be the medium, still, a work is an act. How else do you show your love, without action?


Accepting Jesus means you are saved. No works are involved. Loving is a result of Gods love not a requirement for salvation.

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

jlay wrote:

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

Neo, that is a contradiction if I've ever seen one. Please lay out the Christian code of conduct. I really grow so tired of hearing some say, there are no requirements, and then in the same breath say there are, which is EXACLTY what you are doing here.

Do you know what the Kingdom of God refers to? The Word Kingdom occurs in the bible hundreds of times.

What do you mean one MUST Abide?

Are you saying if you commit a sin you go to Hell even if you accept Jesus?

Are you saying God judges our deeds and then lets us in anyway if we accept Jesus as our saviour?

Or are you saying something else?

I think I made my point clear J, in the other thread where we are having almost the same discussion (the one with stmonica). I don't have anything new to add. It would suffice. That is my position, I know you don't agree but then what you are saying also fails at some points to which I hold, and I think we have been over them quite a few times, so nothing new there. This is simply what I believe. Best would be to read it and then form opinions.

Here is the link.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 15#p107254

I really grow so tired of hearing some say, there are no requirements, and then in the same breath say there are, which is EXACLTY what you are doing here.

Prove me wrong, J. I believe we have different definitions of a lot of things and we'll just end up in circles, like we always do on this issue.

Brother Neo

neo-x wrote:No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

Can you not see the double-speak here, Bro?

Neo, I address it more in the other thread.

Bottom line is as Danny said, double speak. You statement is contradictory. It is plain and obvious. Our God is not a God of contradictions.

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

I "third the motion", that this is doublespeak. Works aren't a requirement of salvation, but in order for salvation to be complete, one must abide by works. So we don't gain salvation by works, we only keep salvation by works.

RickD wrote:

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

I "third the motion", that this is doublespeak. Works aren't a requirement of salvation, but in order for salvation to be complete, one must abide by works. So we don't gain salvation by works, we only keep salvation by works.

The people going on about works for salvation do not understand the gospel

Widge wrote:

RickD wrote:

No one said it is a requirement of salvation, but in the end each man's work will be tested as the scriptures do say. For salvation to be complete as in entering the kingdom of God, one must abide by Christian code of conduct.

I "third the motion", that this is doublespeak. Works aren't a requirement of salvation, but in order for salvation to be complete, one must abide by works. So we don't gain salvation by works, we only keep salvation by works.

The people going on about works for salvation do not understand the gospel

Nor are the ones presuming to know what works are.

Jesus said believe in me and you will be saved. The works thing or loving others is a result of salvation NOT a requirement.

Saved by grace. Maintained by graced. Glorified in the end into the presence of God by grace.

Anything else, is what I call (and I used to preach it too) the "bait and switch" gospel.

Salvation is by grace and grace alone. That's the foundation of any relationship with God through Christ.

Works are the fruit, not the root of that relationship with God. There's a difference in scripture between when it speak of salvation and when it speaks of the "Kingdom of God." The confusion comes when we confuse salvation with the Kingdom. Salvation is relational and it's an all or nothing prospect. You're either saved or you are not. Anything else is like being "a little bit pregnant."

In the context of the Kingdom of God; that future order where Christ rules upon a renewed earth, there is indication that some will receive more reward than others and works in that regard may play in. Even then, however, Jesus made it clear that it wasn't enough to do works for their own sake. We have to find the source of them in the right motives which are to center on two things, the love of God and the love of others. Jesus told his disciples when James and John and their mother came to him asking for special favor in the kingdom (note ... not salvation). Jesus then admonished them that having the goal of lording power and position over others was not a worthy motive. That's what pagans do. Jesus then went on to in other contexts preach the beatitudes and show that the Kingdom of God in many ways, runs upside down in terms of how the world's systems work.

I find, usually, the people who focus the most upon works and who seems the most emotionally invested in making sure that this whole "grace thing doesn't go too far" are responding to what Paul refered to as the scandal or the offense of the Gospel. People who think they are more righteous or have worked harder than others, want to be sure that other people know it and that they're going to get what is fair and coming to them in the end. That whole attitude is what in the end appears to a great degree to determine whether their works in the end are going to be wood, hay and stubble or gold, silver and precious jewels. The same type of works are going to be in each pile. It's our heart attitude, motivation and love for others that makes the difference, and the irony is, the people who worry the least about trying to earn things for God and who are just doing things from the love that their grace relationship gives way too, are the ones whose works are of the most value to God and the least to themselves.

Something to think about perhaps.

Now I understand what the bait and switch gospel is. Thanks, Bart. If you have one of those old sermons, when you preached about this, I'd love to read, or hear it.