Evidence for God from Science

Byblos wrote:

DannyM wrote:Dom, I wouldn't dismiss 1700 years of Catholicism so readily if I were you. At least not without acknowledging some of its achievements for Christendom and its great theologians of the past.

You missed about 278 years but I won't argue semantics.

Oy!

Paul, Paul, Paul

You quoted Dom Rick, not me.
LOL.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Paul, Paul, Paul

You quoted Dom Rick, not me.
LOL.

Yeah I noticed that too and was expecting Dom to say something even before you did but for some reason he responded to the post and never pointed it out.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Paul, Paul, Paul

You quoted Dom Rick, not me.
LOL.

Paul, I thought I read somewhere, that dom's name is Paul, as well. He didn't correct me, so I guess his name is Paul.

DannyM wrote:James speaks of a hidden faith, a faith shut out from the world. Such a faith is dead for this world. Salvation is not in question here, and if it were we’d have a Bible that flatly contradicted itself. When James talks of faith, this faith is set, it is sealed. He’s not talking of a faith in the balance here. Faith without deeds is useless. It is dead. It is not lost. It is not something you could lose.

You're completely missing my point, Danny. Here you are saying that such a faith is "shut out" and "dead" for this world.
Then you go. Oh, yeah, of course you need obedience and work come with faith.
Then you go. Obedience and work doesn't save?

You understand this contradiction?

I have never said obedience and work ALONE will save. Thats absurd.

(O = obedience) (W = work) (F = faith)
O + W = F
You don't have F, if you don't have O.
You don't have F, if your W never shows up.
You would have not F, or fake F.

Yet, you can redeem your F for S (salvation) in the complete absence of O + W?

You see where I'm getting at here? Those who are capable of O, and the W that follows don't really have much excuse to not have it. Goes to show that you have not F, or fake F. Unless you are on death row, or in a war zone, or something of that sort.

Do we disobey God? Absolutely. Even as Christians? Yes, we do. Should we have a better behavior and obedience to God as Christians? You would hope so, right? I would expect that.

I'm not inclined to believe that you're "sealed" as it appears you guys define it. That violates freewill. If you receive Christ genuinely, and you decide you don't want heaven and you love your life here on earth more. You will not be forced.

Now you guys might have a word for this or you might say "well, he clearly wasn't predestined". Thats nonsense, and you don't know that. How you guys judge this on your own baffles me.

Conveniently everyone here has ignored that God calls us to reason and wants our consent. That never changes.

Anyhow. Would somebody be so kind as to accumulate baptism questions for me to answer that are unanswered? I think I got the flu, I don't feel good. I'm working overtime. My wife is now on maternity leave and we're awaiting the arrival of our firstborn (its a girl!). I appreciate it.

Dom, congrats... what a blessing. I have three little ones myself! Was the flu predestined... chill, I'm only kidding!!!

How can you have a Fake Faith... you either believe or you don't, and by that you either accept or deny Him by the fruit you bare in your life; hence why I believe one can freely choose to deny Him after coming to know Him, just as freely choose to accept Him before coming to know Him.

I must misunderstand the death row, or in a war zone part, hope you don't mean they would have fake f and come to know Him before they die last minute kind of thing, if so then how could we judge, and why would we judge for that matter, why would we care; they in essence are the thief on the cross. Maybe I misunderstood.

Anyways... I don't think you forgot about me, although I feel I've laid out some pretty compelling scripture. However, don't stress or worry, take care of yourself and your family!

domokunrox wrote:You're completely missing my point, Danny. Here you are saying that such a faith is "shut out" and "dead" for this world.
Then you go. Oh, yeah, of course you need obedience and work come with faith.
Then you go. Obedience and work doesn't save?

You understand this contradiction?

Nope, no contradictions, Dom. And I know you didn’t say works and obedience alone will save. Now understand me here. Salvation is by grace alone. Works and obedience are fruits of the faith. But works and obedience contribute not a jot to your salvation. It's your salvation which contributes to your works and obedience. James says that their faith will be no good if it is without fruit. James is stating a truism.

We are indeed called to be holy:

1 Peter 1:13-15
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.

14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.

15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do

But nothing can spoil the inheritance, which can never perish, and is shielded by God:

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade— kept in heaven for you,

5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

(O = obedience) (W = work) (F = faith)
O + W = F
You don't have F, if you don't have O.
You don't have F, if your W never shows up.
You would have not F, or fake F.

Yet, you can redeem your F for S (salvation) in the complete absence of O + W?

You see where I'm getting at here? Those who are capable of O, and the W that follows don't really have much excuse to not have it. Goes to show that you have not F, or fake F. Unless you are on death row, or in a war zone, or something of that sort.

Wrong. Prove:

O + W = F

You don't have F, if you don't have O.

You don't have F, if your W never shows up.

Prove these three please, Dom, beyond mere assertion.

I'm not inclined to believe that you're "sealed" as it appears you guys define it. That violates freewill. If you receive Christ genuinely, and you decide you don't want heaven and you love your life here on earth more. You will not be forced.

“Violates free will“? I’m afraid that you can kiss your ‘free will’ goodbye.

Ephesians 1:12-14
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession— to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Romans 10:11
As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

Now you guys might have a word for this or you might say "well, he clearly wasn't predestined". Thats nonsense, and you don't know that. How you guys judge this on your own baffles me.

Scripture's the judge here, Dom. Just Scripture.

RickD on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:03 pm

Rick, as a brother and member, I would say that locking another thread is not much of a help. This creates a lots of problems, wasted time and posts. Plus it projects a very wrong impression - we lock threads that are against out personal beliefs.

Neo, I would never lock a thread because someone said something that I don't believe in. The only reason why I would lock this thread, would be because this thread gets to the point where it's not being fruitful. Certain people may not be allowed to participate, if they don't properly participate in the thread. When one holds to a position, that every other Christian posting, disagrees with, and refuses to address the plethora of questions posed to him, he is no longer participating properly in the discussion.

Rick, I never said, you would lock it because he thinks differently, I just meant, it might give the wrong impression. I agree with you on the rest, as a mod here, you have a responsibility and if someone is in conflict with the guideline, you can take action. My main concern was not to waste time and posts and most of all, I wanted things to chill down a little. So we can all have a good time. That was all, thank you, bro.

My wife is now on maternity leave and we're awaiting the arrival of our firstborn (its a girl!). I appreciate it.

Wow! congrats & God bless

Guys, with all due respect, this thread is about water baptism, not secured salvation.

I intend to think that we can come to God and we can always go back. Sealed is for those who continue to walk with God. Anyway, this has been discussed before and heavily argued on both sides and although I do not agree with the contrary view on this, this is clearly not the place to start this topic again, guys. Else we'll probably have to split thread again.

here is the other thread "Secured salvation"
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 22&t=36306