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Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:01 pm
by KBCid
sandy_mcd wrote:eventually the universe which reach a state of maximum entropy. This "heat death" state does not mean the universe ceases to exist, just that no more useful work can be done. Life could no longer exist.
What indeed would be left once the last atom reached maximum entrophy? I noticed you made sure to note that the universe would not cease to exist. I take that as the empty space part right? Ever wonder what an atom breaks down into? we know for sure that a huge burst of energy is released but, what else was there in that atom besides the energy and does it return to a state of non existence? or .... is there something there that remains kinda like an empty shell or de-energized remains of some sort? I always wonder if...;

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

...holds more meaning. Could the waters actually represent what existed and as God hovered over them he was imparting energy, the kind we see when an atom is split.

Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:23 pm
by sandy_mcd
Verdict in June at the earliest.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_2041 ... rss_viewed
Closing arguments conclude in JPL evolution case
Brian Charles, SGVN Pasadena Star-News
Posted:
PasadenaStarNews.com
LOS ANGELES - Lawyers Monday completed closing arguments in the case of a former Jet Propulsion Laboratory employee who claims he was laid off for believing in intelligent design.
An attorney for David Coppedge said his client was subjected to "stubborn and complete intolerance" of his beliefs while working for JPL. It was that attitude which hastened Coppedge's firing, attorney William J. Becker, Jr. argued in a month-long trial that pitted science and religion in a way that was sometimes reminiscent of the 1920s Scopes Monkey Trial.

In their defense, JPL attorneys argued that Coppedge, the systems administrator, had become a combative employee whose skills had faded. He was demoted by the lab in 2009 and fired last year as part of a downsizing at the facility in La Canada Flintridge.

"We have been in this trial for five weeks and there has been no evidence, just conjecture, that Mr. Coppedge was treated differently," JPL attorney Cameron Fox said. "What happened to David Coppedge had nothing to do with intelligent design."

Ultimately, Superior Judge Ernest Hiroshige will decide the matter. In doing so he will comb through more than a month's worth of testimony, as well written arguments yet to be submitted by attorneys for each side.

Lawyers in the case expect a final decision no earlier than June.

Monday's argument by Becker focused on whether his client's expressed support for intelligent design hastened his layoff in 2011.

Becker said there was no evidence that Coppedge coerced co-workers to watch the intelligent design and religious DVDs that he distributed and sold on the grounds of the science lab during his tenure.

Fox wrapped up her verbal arguments by claiming Coppedge was an employee who "lacked self awareness, who was stubborn and didn't listen."

Fox's closing arguments also poked holes in the arguments given by Becker.

Coppedge was laid off in spring 2011, more than two years after he filed an initial suit against JPL for creating what he deemed to be a hostile work environment. In 2009, co-workers began complaining about Coppedge's distribution of two intelligent design DVDs, "The Privileged Planet" and "Unlocking the Mystery of Life." Both videos advocate for intelligent design, a belief closely tied with the religious right wing. Coppedge's JPL supervisors considered the material to be religious in nature. The former JPL systems administrator also kept a running lending log of JPL employees whom he loaned the videos to, and an account of their reactions to the video.

His direct supervisor Greg Chin reprimanded Coppedge in 2009 after several co-workers complained about the distribution of intelligent design DVDs and his prior distribution of a religious video titled "The Case for Christ."

Fox said Coppedge's stubbornness thwarted Chin's attempt to warn Coppedge about his behavior and precipitated a dust-up between the Chin and Coppedge.

"(Chin's) attempt at a heads-up got hijacked" and turned "into an argument about intelligent design," Fox said.

Co-workers testified that Coppedge was combative and expressive about his conservative religious beliefs. He challenged Chin to an off-campus debate on intelligent design and engaged in spirited arguments around California's 2008 gay marriage ban ballot initiative, Proposition 8.

Following the 2009 incident, Coppedge's performance evaluations turned negative, according to court testimony.

Fox said Coppedge's layoff came because he "lacked the skills" skills as a system administrator, adding that Coppedge's skill set had become obsolete.

Fox criticized Becker's closing argument saying that it contained several "logical flaws."

In his closing arguments Monday, Becker said Coppedge was holding conversation about intelligent design and creation in much the same way others at JPL discussed traditional science. Becker added that nothing about Coppedge's behavior violated the policies at JPL.

"There's no policy against distributing religious materials at JPL non-work related religious expression is tolerated at JPL JPL has no policy about making someone uncomfortable," Becker said.

Attorneys for both sides continued to argue Monday that Coppedge's case is purely about wrongful termination and has no implications beyond being a case of employment law.

However, advocates of intelligent design and defenders of evolution have monitored the trial.

Supporters of creation science are directly involved with Coppedge's case.

Becker is an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a conservative Christian group. Josh Youngkin, program officer in law and policy at Discovery Institute, which advocates from intelligent design and creation science, is assisting with the case of Coppedge's behalf.

The National Center for Science Education, which supports evolution and climate change education in public schools, has posted regular updates on the trial on its website.

The stakes in this case, according to NCSE, are high.

NCSE spokesman Robert Luhn said the creationist/intelligent design community would likely distort a win by Coppedge. Supporters of intelligent design would likely perceive a win Coppedge's wrongful termination lawsuit as a win against "Big Science."

Tennessee enacted a law on April 11 that allows science teacher to introduce "alternatives" to evolution to K through 12 students. Critics say the new law will allow teachers to present pseudo-scientific ideas, such as intelligent design, in science classes.

Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:49 pm
by sandy_mcd
KBCid wrote:What indeed would be left once the last atom reached maximum entrophy? I noticed you made sure to note that the universe would not cease to exist. I take that as the empty space part right?
I'm not sure what it means in terms of atoms, but the universe would exist. It at the least means that all matter everywhere is at the same temperature, thus no thermodynamic work of any kind can be done. But more than that i don't know and haven't found out.

Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:04 pm
by KBCid
sandy_mcd wrote:I'm not sure what it means in terms of atoms, but the universe would exist. It at the least means that all matter everywhere is at the same temperature, thus no thermodynamic work of any kind can be done. But more than that i don't know and haven't found out.
So imagine that when God began to create, that infinite space was already there and that he caused the natural state of equilibrium to change as he charged the constituents that form matter and then he made very highly intricate arrangements of that energized matter. Infinite time and infinite space could have always existed... what hadn't always existed was energized matter in complex designs which became the design arrangement he called heaven and earth. This arrangement would have been eternal too except for sin, and God cannot stand to be in the presence of sin so he stopped keeping his creation energized and it is now falling apart back into its normal state.
Of course, he has promised to return and reform it again into the state he first formed it into and it appears that he wants it to remain that way for eternity.

Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:46 am
by RickD
Of course, he has promised to return and reform it again into the state he first formed it into and it appears that he wants it to remain that way for eternity.
What do you base this statement on?

Re: Scientist In Fight With NASA Over Intelligent Design

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:03 pm
by KBCid
KBCid wrote:Of course, he has promised to return and reform it again into the state he first formed it into and it appears that he wants it to remain that way for eternity.
RickD wrote:What do you base this statement on?
There are many verses which point to God recreating the earth. here are a few.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isaiah 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isaiah 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.