inspired or dictated?

[B. W.]

Acts 13:33...Psalm 2:7, Hebrews 1:5 "Today" Jesus was begotten in the womb of Mary. As the Creeds have the phrase "eternally begotten" that is nowhere to be found in scripture. Even if it was, Jesus would have been begotten at some point in eternity. This would mean that there would have been two "begettings" LOL spellcheck. I can reconsider my view on when Jesus was begotten. John 3:16 powerful and wonderful

For someone with a Masters in Greek you appear quite ignorant of it use - maybe too much Study from THE WAY INTERNATIONAL Master Coruses? don't know if that is where you got it from or were merely influenced by it from a degree you received elswhere...

Begotten means - unique - special one of a kind - not created . Another word would have been used to denote a created born person. Begotten referes to Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6 - God joining himself to Humanity to demonstrate his love and character. God in three persons of one divine essence does not MEAN Three Gods. We don't teach three God but One God who consist in three divine Panim/paniym. One of the Paniym, the Son came for this purpose.

Yes, we know that Jesus was 100 percent Man and also 100 percent God as only God can be Savior.

What demonstrates Love (agape) more:

God making a mega phone - man meat sacrifice - to rescue and reconcile human beings back himself? (In this God remains far off distant figure)

God coming as man, to die for man in order to rescue and reconcile us back to himself? (In this, God steps out of himself (Philippians 2:5, 6, 7, 8, 9. 10c) to experience what we do, and die to expose what sin is and does - in order to save us from ourselves)

Which is more an act of Love?

Your POV teaches the man meat creature saves - the megaphone version...God aloof far away - needing THE WAY INTERNATIONAL doctrine revised in its splinter groups to intervene...hmmm...

If only God can save - why would YHWH share his Glory with another reagrding the act of salavtion on the cross for the whole world only he could do?
-
-
-

[1stjohn0666]

"logos" = of speech. Person = "anthropos" we can look at the last of John 1:1 "kai theos een o logos" wich literally translated is "kai (and) theos (God) een o (was the) logos (word). The word "word" is never even in our language NOT a person, but that of something spoken. "in the beginning God spoke something and (pardon the phrase) POOF there it was.

[RickD]

John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word(the Son), and the Word(the Son) was with God, and the Word(the Son) was God.
2 He(the Son) was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him(the Son), and apart from Him(the Son) nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him(the Son) was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John," the Word" in verse 1 is the same as "He" and "Him" in verses 2, 3, and 4. It's clear that the text is referring to a person in all cases above. I added (the Son) to show that the Word is in fact, a person. The second person of the trinity. The Son, who is God.

[1stjohn0666]

Let's go with the Tyndale. As I feel it has no translator bias in the opening of John. Tyndale John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word. The same was in the beginning with god. All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was. In it was life, And life was the light of men, And the light shineth in the darkness, and darkness comprehended it not." In the Greek the word "he" is not found until vs 3 And I see it as God the Father. I see it as a quick jot of the beginning of Genesis.
There may come a day I subscribe to the terinity as my wife is a believer of such.

[RickD]

There may come a day I subscribe to the terinity as my wife is a believer of such.

John, that's the beginning of wisdom. When one listens to his wife.

[RickD]

John, the tyndale translation is very difficult to read. We don't use a lot of those words anymore. But, since you chose that translation, let's continue in the book of John 1:14-18 :
14 And that word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw the glory of it, as the glory of the only begotten son of the father, which word was full of grace, and verity. 15 Ihon bare witness of him saying: This was he of whom I spake, he that cometh after me, was before me because he was yer then I. 16 And of his fullness have all we received, even favour for favour. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but favour and verity came by Iesus Christ. 18 No man saw god at any time. The only begotten son, which is in the father's bosom, hath declared him.

There's John the Baptist(Ihon) speaking of Jesus coming after him, but was before him. Again, that speaks of Jesus' deity. Jesus existed eternally as God, before He came in the flesh.

[1stjohn0666]

One must have knowledge to have wisdom.

[B. W.]

One must have knowledge to have wisdom.

Not from the WAY INTERNATIONAL - just be a dictation machine...

Bible answers bible and Jesus spoke about his coming in the OT....

Next is a quote from another thread that fits here...

And since Jesus is the exact image and representation of God, doesn't that mean that Who they saw as Jesus in his pre-incarnate form?

Lots of theophanies in the Old Testament eh? I like the one of Manoah and his wife seeing God (where Manoah freaked out thinking he was going to die since he saw God) and when YHWH ate with Abraham and Sarai in Genesis 18.

Yes, that is correct Razorswift, YHWH is the name for HaElohim. In that name is found the three panim/paniym of one God that we have as identified in the NT as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the OT we have YHWH speaking and the way to tell which of God's pamim is speaking is easy once you catch on and requires knowing your bible both OT and NT. Sometimes YHWH means - HaElohim (Godead presence/essense) in total, or YHWH the Father speaks, so does YHWH the SON (preincarnate Jesus), So does YHWH the Holy Spirit.

What oneness only people as well as cultist like john666 of the WAY International, JW, Christdelphelians, etc do is reduce God's oneness as a singular oneness - just as we see in this world -same as ZEUS was a singular being - to them God is in this image only. This is in Violation of Exo 20:1-8 - making God into an image like what's in the world regarding His state of Oneness.

In Isaiah- YHWH speaks and reveals that there is NONE LIKE HIM. Therefore his oneness is plural - and echaud and not and echid. What Oneness only and cultist people fail to understand that God is self existing and therefore the three Panim/paniym that makeup God's spiritual oneness - each are self existing as well and since self-existing are three persons/panim. YHWH is the plural One in his oneness and not a singular in his oneness. How can God take an oath to himself - to Abraham three times - or Jacob as well - if not all three confirm the oath? Think about it?

What does a spiritual being look like? What does a presence look like? We know from Romans chapter one that Paul write that we see the evidence of God in his creation. We are created in His image of tri-part being. However our flesh/blood, two distinct parts - with differing attribute/functions, are not self existing, whereas our spiritual part (what is identified by biology by bio-electrical impulses as evidence of the spirit existence) was created to self exist at birth.

Jesus - the second Panim of God enter into humanity and to do so, He stepped out of his godhood and joined himself to humanity and thus spoke from the human perspective. It is from that human perspective that cultist like john666 of the WAY International, JW, Christdelphelians, etc confuse to mean He was less than God - a created being - or angelic angel.. They refuse to acknowledge who Jesus is and what he came etc do.. They fail to see God as the Only Plural One. They teach another Jesus who can't save or if he did as a creature, nullifies many bible quotes YHWH (Pluralness) spoke that only YHWH can save. Often the one YHWH saying these things, is the preincarnate Jesus speaking...

I am only being brief here and concise - in the Thread I started years ago entitled = OT Concept of God - I address these points in more details. Looking at it again - it is by no means complete bu enough there to help the reader gain a better grasp of God.
-
-
-

[1stjohn0666]

I love Hebrews 6:13 since there is none greater than God, he had to swear by himself. pretty cool if you ask me.

[Gman]

I can't believe it... Finally someone from "The Way". Well I use to be apart of this cult group and even attended some of V.P. Wierwille's classes back in the 80's. I still have many of their books, "Power for Abundant Living", "Jesus is not God," and such... I thought that these guys died off but I guess I'm wrong..

[bippy123]

I love Hebrews 6:13 since there is none greater than God, he had to swear by himself. pretty cool if you ask me.

John why not save yourself the trouble and go back and re-read what the earliest Christians were taught about the trinity, starting with the students of the apostles like ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp all the way down to when the doctrine of the trinity was fully defined. The apostles were given the authority to not only preach the gospel but to I struct these first Christian students of their how to interpret it as well.
If you want to understand the core of Christian beliefs you have go back to the beginning.
The apostles wanted to make sure that what Jesus taught them would get passed down to the next generation, and the next generation were as zealous for their love of Christ as the apostles. Ignatius of Antioch died in a roman arena eaten by lions because he wouldn't deny Christ as the savior.

[1stjohn0666]

I do not deny Christ as savior.

[B. W.]

I do not deny Christ as savior.

But you deny the Lord spoken of in Jer 23:6-7... only he can save as it is written:

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Jer 23:5, 6 - "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD (YHWH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides

Jesus was no created being... the one you trust in is... He can't save...
-
-
-

[1stjohn0666]

But you deny the Lord spoken of in Jer 23:6-7... only he can save as it is written:

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Jer 23:5, 6 - "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD (YHWH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides

Jesus was no created being... the one you trust in is... He can't save...

The only thing I deny in all of your claim is the last line. You make an outlandish claim against me that I don't believe Jesus is Messiah/savior.

[RickD]

The only thing I deny in all of your claim is the last line. You make an outlandish claim against me that I don't believe Jesus is Messiah/savior.

John, you believe a false jesus is messiah/savior. A false jesus who is a created being is not able to save us from our sins. Only God can save us. Not to mention that by your worshiping a created jesus, you're worshiping someone who is created, not the Creator. That's idolatry.
Look at the verses B. W. Posted. They're talking about Jesus who is God. Not the false jesus you believe in, who has no power to save.
Is Jesus Christ God?
And
The Trinity