Evidence for God from Science

NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

UsagiTsukino wrote:NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

They don't.

UsagiTsukino wrote:NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

Hebrews passage aside, I think the issue may be to what DEGREE can a Christian lose their faith.
Salvation is up to God so it can be argued that a Christian, if God so decides, can never lose their salvation.
That said, we are all free to reject Christ, so...

PaulSacramento wrote:

UsagiTsukino wrote:NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

Hebrews passage aside, I think the issue may be to what DEGREE can a Christian lose their faith.
Salvation is up to God so it can be argued that a Christian, if God so decides, can never lose their salvation.
That said, we are all free to reject Christ, so...

I think this is why man reject eternal security because they think Christians can sin and be saved. They can do whatever they want and still be saved.

UsagiTsukino wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

UsagiTsukino wrote:NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

Hebrews passage aside, I think the issue may be to what DEGREE can a Christian lose their faith.
Salvation is up to God so it can be argued that a Christian, if God so decides, can never lose their salvation.
That said, we are all free to reject Christ, so...

I think this is why man reject eternal security because they think Christians can sin and be saved. They can do whatever they want and still be saved.

Many could reject eternal security because they just can't get past the idea that they think they have to do something, or perform a certain way, to keep salvation.

RickD wrote:

UsagiTsukino wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

UsagiTsukino wrote:NT does talk about back sliding. How does a Christan lose their faith and salvation

Hebrews passage aside, I think the issue may be to what DEGREE can a Christian lose their faith.
Salvation is up to God so it can be argued that a Christian, if God so decides, can never lose their salvation.
That said, we are all free to reject Christ, so...

I think this is why man reject eternal security because they think Christians can sin and be saved. They can do whatever they want and still be saved.

Many could reject eternal security because they just can't get past the idea that they think they have to do something, or perform a certain way, to keep salvation.

It is a human trait that we believe that we can't get something for nothing.
We tend to place greater value on things that take more effort to get, than those given freely to Us.
We are a race of "selfs", we are so focused on what "I" must do for this and that, that we disregard or devalue what others do for Us.
Salvation is no different.
We understand "self-salvation" - If I do this and act this way I will be saved- but that is salvation based on self interest.
God's grace and love are other centered, His offer of salvation is based on what HE does for Us and many people do NOT like it because it means that it isn't about THEM but about HIM.

I really tire of the, "are you saying that a believer can do whatever they want and not lose their salvation?"

Let me tell you straight up, you, me, everybody, already do EXACTLY what we want to do. When you find a person that is not doing exactly what they want to do, let me know.
It you want to be a legalistic, fundie, and tell everyone they are going to Hell for not subscribing to your religion, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to live in reckless rebellion to God's will, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to rest in the unconditional assurance of your salvation and allow Christ to transform you through the renewing of your mind, then this is exactly what you will do.

jlay wrote:I really tire of the, "are you saying that a believer can do whatever they want and not lose their salvation?"

Let me tell you straight up, you, me, everybody, already do EXACTLY what we want to do. When you find a person that is not doing exactly what they want to do, let me know.
It you want to be a legalistic, fundie, and tell everyone they are going to Hell for not subscribing to your religion, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to live in reckless rebellion to God's will, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to rest in the unconditional assurance of your salvation and allow Christ to transform you through the renewing of your mind, then this is exactly what you will do.

I never really thought about it that way, but you're right!

I want to apologize for my recent outburst. Sometimes enough is enough and things get to you. Time to move on… So I ask for forgiveness for my outburst. Sometimes things get to you.

Jlay so eloquently expresses what I was attempting to get at:

jlay wrote:I really tire of the, "are you saying that a believer can do whatever they want and not lose their salvation?"

Let me tell you straight up, you, me, everybody, already do EXACTLY what we want to do. When you find a person that is not doing exactly what they want to do, let me know.
It you want to be a legalistic, fundie, and tell everyone they are going to Hell for not subscribing to your religion, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to live in reckless rebellion to God's will, then that is exactly what you will do. If you want to rest in the unconditional assurance of your salvation and allow Christ to transform you through the renewing of your mind, then this is exactly what you will do.

Thank God.

What is so frustrating is never going beyond the same old tiring talking points on this matter and that was one reason I became frustrated with this debate. People assume if you say anything about works you are some sort of legalist and respond in that matter. So with that, I am thankful Jlay broke through this mind trap. I do not think I will respond to this thread after this as Jlay speaks volumes and there is no need. Blessings and sorry for offending folks…

P.S. I deleted the offending post...

Blessings
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Philip wrote:Jac, B.W., so glad you guys weighed in on this - it's absolutely amazing how often the belief that one can lose their salvation comes up. And it both scares, worries and takes away the confidence of so many believers. And it plays right into the devil's hands - as he wants us to doubt our salvation and eternal security. He wants us to pay more attention to our feelings than we do to what God's word tells us about this. And so often, our feelings are all over the map. So, one not feeling as spiritual one week, may worry what that might mean. Alas, WHOSE salvation was it to begin with - certainly not ours - we're, as previously poor beggars, merely the beneficiaries of a magnificent and eternal inheritance, given by grace, through faith!

People should take care if they are serving Father for any reward. Father created us to serve him. It should fill our hearts to serve him even if he said, "I will not give you life." Just to know, and serve him for a short time should fill your heart with joy.

So if a christan sins than what?

UsagiTsukino wrote:So if a christan sins than what?

He is a Christian, he believes in Jesus. He is saved. Normally, he should not be happy about his sinning.

Okay because I have a guy friend that's very devout and is angry with himself. He is addicted to watching adult stuff but doesn't want to and because of that he thinks he going to hell. He repents but than gets angry because he winds up doing it again and doesn't want to live like that. He doesn't do what to . He truly thinks Going to hell.


I pray for him all the time

Will I go to hell? I'm so confused on what positions that I feel I'm a failure to god for not loving up I will not lie I have sin and I feel god maybe have cut me off. It's not like I don't feel bad but you know .

UsagiTsukino wrote:Will I go to hell? I'm so confused on what positions that I feel I'm a failure to god for not loving up I will not lie I have sin and I feel god maybe have cut me off. It's not like I don't feel bad but you know .

If you feel that you are a failure, then I think that you in fact feel bad about it.

Do you believe in Jesus? That he died for you, and that he is your Savior?