Evidence for God from Science

Thanks Philip, will do, right now

Thanks for that link Philip

So, God foreknows but doesn`t predetermine who will reject Him. Now, that makes sense.

Storyteller wrote:Okay guys, bear with me here....

So, all names are in the book to start with.
We choose to blot them out.
Right, I get that bit.

So what about those who haven't heard? If they havent heard, then they wont know there is a choice, will they? So by default, their names must still be there.

Thoughts?

See, here is the thing, those that have not heard the true gospel of Christ will be judged and saved according to their deeds and intentions.
Those that reject God have already been judged.
God knows those that will reject Him and He knows why and He also knows those that either never hear His Word or Understand it for no fault of their own and He knows WHY.
That said, the truth is that we ALL do hear His Word for His Word is LOVE, true love, a selfless, other-centered and compassion focused love.
In short, all that know TRUE Love KNOW God ( to a certain extent of course).
The gospel is another matter and the more distorted it gets by some, the hard it is for others to believe BUT that is why God has made a provision for this and NO ONE other than those that REJECT and BLASPHEMY the HS will lose salvation.
Our salvation is not from death mind for ALL men die.
Our salvation is FROM judgment and FOR the resurrection.

Those that do not believe, have not heard the gospel will be resurrected not to eternal life but to judgment and then, IF they are worthy based on the good works and intentions, God will decide if they are to have eternal life.
Now, that may not seem such a bd thing except for the fact that NONE are worthy and all our "good works" are corrupted IF our intentions are not pure and who's intentions are pure ?

PaulSacramento wrote:

Storyteller wrote:Okay guys, bear with me here....

So, all names are in the book to start with.
We choose to blot them out.
Right, I get that bit.

So what about those who haven't heard? If they havent heard, then they wont know there is a choice, will they? So by default, their names must still be there.

Thoughts?

See, here is the thing, those that have not heard the true gospel of Christ will be judged and saved according to their deeds and intentions.
Those that reject God have already been judged.
God knows those that will reject Him and He knows why and He also knows those that either never hear His Word or Understand it for no fault of their own and He knows WHY.
That said, the truth is that we ALL do hear His Word for His Word is LOVE, true love, a selfless, other-centered and compassion focused love.
In short, all that know TRUE Love KNOW God ( to a certain extent of course).
The gospel is another matter and the more distorted it gets by some, the hard it is for others to believe BUT that is why God has made a provision for this and NO ONE other than those that REJECT and BLASPHEMY the HS will lose salvation.
Our salvation is not from death mind for ALL men die.
Our salvation is FROM judgment and FOR the resurrection.

Those that do not believe, have not heard the gospel will be resurrected not to eternal life but to judgment and then, IF they are worthy based on the good works and intentions, God will decide if they are to have eternal life.
Now, that may not seem such a bd thing except for the fact that NONE are worthy and all our "good works" are corrupted IF our intentions are not pure and who's intentions are pure ?

Now you`ve given me something else to ponder on!

I am becoming less convinced that there are actually that many that will not/have not heard the message. I know that I have always believed in God. I came looking for Him and He found me, and led me here. So, I can believe that ALL that know God and seek God will hear the message.
I do believe that God knows who truly seek Him.

Just as I think I am beginning to understand it, another question or dilemma surfaces!

Pure intentions? That`s a biggie, I`ll need to ponder that one a while.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Storyteller wrote:Okay guys, bear with me here....

So, all names are in the book to start with.
We choose to blot them out.
Right, I get that bit.

So what about those who haven't heard? If they havent heard, then they wont know there is a choice, will they? So by default, their names must still be there.

Thoughts?

See, here is the thing, those that have not heard the true gospel of Christ will be judged and saved according to their deeds and intentions.
Those that reject God have already been judged.
God knows those that will reject Him and He knows why and He also knows those that either never hear His Word or Understand it for no fault of their own and He knows WHY.
That said, the truth is that we ALL do hear His Word for His Word is LOVE, true love, a selfless, other-centered and compassion focused love.
In short, all that know TRUE Love KNOW God ( to a certain extent of course).
The gospel is another matter and the more distorted it gets by some, the hard it is for others to believe BUT that is why God has made a provision for this and NO ONE other than those that REJECT and BLASPHEMY the HS will lose salvation.
Our salvation is not from death mind for ALL men die.
Our salvation is FROM judgment and FOR the resurrection.

Those that do not believe, have not heard the gospel will be resurrected not to eternal life but to judgment and then, IF they are worthy based on the good works and intentions, God will decide if they are to have eternal life.
Now, that may not seem such a bd thing except for the fact that NONE are worthy and all our "good works" are corrupted IF our intentions are not pure and who's intentions are pure ?

As far as the underlined part you wrote, would you like to rephrase that, or are you sticking with it as written?

You think that is something to ponder?
Lets not forget Revelations and what happens there !
After 1000 years of living with Our Lord, The Adversary will be let lose and some people will STILL follow him and turn on Our Lord !
Ponder on that !
LOL !

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Storyteller wrote:Okay guys, bear with me here....

So, all names are in the book to start with.
We choose to blot them out.
Right, I get that bit.

So what about those who haven't heard? If they havent heard, then they wont know there is a choice, will they? So by default, their names must still be there.

Thoughts?

See, here is the thing, those that have not heard the true gospel of Christ will be judged and saved according to their deeds and intentions.
Those that reject God have already been judged.
God knows those that will reject Him and He knows why and He also knows those that either never hear His Word or Understand it for no fault of their own and He knows WHY.
That said, the truth is that we ALL do hear His Word for His Word is LOVE, true love, a selfless, other-centered and compassion focused love.
In short, all that know TRUE Love KNOW God ( to a certain extent of course).
The gospel is another matter and the more distorted it gets by some, the hard it is for others to believe BUT that is why God has made a provision for this and NO ONE other than those that REJECT and BLASPHEMY the HS will lose salvation.
Our salvation is not from death mind for ALL men die.
Our salvation is FROM judgment and FOR the resurrection.

Those that do not believe, have not heard the gospel will be resurrected not to eternal life but to judgment and then, IF they are worthy based on the good works and intentions, God will decide if they are to have eternal life.
Now, that may not seem such a bd thing except for the fact that NONE are worthy and all our "good works" are corrupted IF our intentions are not pure and who's intentions are pure ?

As far as the underlined part you wrote, would you like to rephrase that, or are you sticking with it as written?

I know what you mean but nor sure what other way to express that...
I know that one can't lose what they never had BUT there are some passages that CAN be interpreted as such, such as the "blotting out of the names" in the book of life.
EX:
If a name was blotted out, it means it was there, if it was there it means that person was, at one point, in the book of life, if he/she was then it means that, at one point, they were saved.

Its a tough one to reconcile.

Maybe all names are there because we all have the potential to be saved?

It`s only if we reject God that our names are blotted out?

Storyteller wrote:Maybe all names are there because we all have the potential to be saved?

It`s only if we reject God that our names are blotted out?

Yeah, I tend to agree with that view.
However, it can rightly be argued that since God knows who will believe and who won't then only those He knows will be in the Book of life.
That said we still have to reconcile the passages that seem to imply that some will be "blotted' out.

Will you please stop doing that?

Just as I think "Aha! Got it!" You go and throw a spanner in the works

Maybe we all start out in the book of life in the hope that somehow those who will be blotted out will find God.

Or, people are blotted out of The Book of Life when they die in their sins.

RickD wrote:Or, people are blotted out of The Book of Life when they die in their sins.

But they WERE in the book of life and that is the point.

BUT lets not turn this into a "once saved always saved" discussion, we know how those go, LOL !

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:Or, people are blotted out of The Book of Life when they die in their sins.

But they WERE in the book of life and that is the point.

BUT lets not turn this into a "once saved always saved" discussion, we know how those go, LOL !

I'm just throwing out the possibility that being saved, isn't necessarily the same as being in the book of life. If everyone is written in the book of life, but some are blotted out, then you'd have to say salvation can be lost. That is, if you equate being in the book of life, necessarily with salvation.

That's why I asked if you wanted to change what I underlined in your quote above.

Maybe the book of life is just a list of everyone who has lived, is living, or will live and those that reject God are blotted out, so it is both like a register and a list of those who are saved.

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:Or, people are blotted out of The Book of Life when they die in their sins.

But they WERE in the book of life and that is the point.

BUT lets not turn this into a "once saved always saved" discussion, we know how those go, LOL !

I'm just throwing out the possibility that being saved, isn't necessarily the same as being in the book of life. If everyone is written in the book of life, but some are blotted out, then you'd have to say salvation can be lost. That is, if you equate being in the book of life, necessarily with salvation.

That's why I asked if you wanted to change what I underlined in your quote above.

This is the issue we have when things seem to be implied in the bible.
The implication of the names in the book of life seems to be that only those in there will be saved BUT that some can be blotted out means that those will not be.
Now, some have argued that the book of the living in the Psalm is different then the book of life and that MAY be the case BUT that there is a statement in revelations 3:5 that shows that a name CAN be blotted out (though Christ won't do that).
Most scholars tend to agree that the statement in Revelations echos the one in Psalms.

I think it is unfair to state that Revelations does NOT imply that some can be blotted out because we are trying to adhere to a doctrine we agree with.

I mean, if there was no chance of a name being blotted out, why even mention it ??