Evidence for God from Science

Kenny wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:11 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:16 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:26 pm
If cells have always existed, I can see it as only a matter of time before they can join and evolve into an intelligent being.

Ken,

I'm curious...what do you think caused these eternally existing cells to change?

Again; all I can give you are guesses. Perhaps the expansion of the Singularity allowed them to change this way.

So, here is the thing.
You agree that the elements or properties of intelligence MUST have existed in the universe, correct?
They didn't just come from nowhere.
So the quantum singularity from which the universe expanded from, must have contained these elements, correct?
Something caused these elements to come together and "form" intelligence, correct?

This is where things end for me; I cannot assume something else caused these elements to come together, because then the question becomes how did this “something else” form intelligence; and being an atheist and all; I can’t presuppose it as God thus exempt from all logical rules cells and everything else must adhere to, so I have to admit to not having an answer

Kenny wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:11 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:16 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:42 pm
Ken,

I'm curious...what do you think caused these eternally existing cells to change?

Again; all I can give you are guesses. Perhaps the expansion of the Singularity allowed them to change this way.

So, here is the thing.
You agree that the elements or properties of intelligence MUST have existed in the universe, correct?
They didn't just come from nowhere.
So the quantum singularity from which the universe expanded from, must have contained these elements, correct?
Something caused these elements to come together and "form" intelligence, correct?

This is where things end for me; I cannot assume something else caused these elements to come together, because then the question becomes how did this “something else” form intelligence; and being an atheist and all; I can’t presuppose it as God thus exempt from all logical rules cells and everything else must adhere to, so I have to admit to not having an answer

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am Where did you get 'God" from?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am What do you mean by "God"?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am Science, both observable an theoretical are leading us somewhere, to something, why resist?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am And why would this "God" you are referring to be exempt from Logic ??

You spoke of an eternally existing intelligent being; what else could you possibly be talking about???

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

You spoke of an eternally existing intelligent being; what else could you possibly be talking about???

Indeed, Christians call something that is eternal, all powerful, all knowing and all present God, but what do YOU call it?

Ken: If I met someone who were eternal, all powerful, knew everything, and present everywhere, how would I know they were, unless I was? Am I just supposed to just take their word for it?

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 pm Kenny, I'm wondering, do you consider a cell to be life?

Kenny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:16 pm

Ken: "If cells have always existed, I can see it as only a matter of time before they can join and evolve into an intelligent being."

Ken, I love your casual use of the word "if." And a simple cell could not have evolved to become such. As at its most basic design and functionality, it is already MASSIVELY complex - more so than any machine man has ever built! ALL of it's components must be in place, at one time, for it to function as a cell. And, of course, as a biological component, the perfect conditions for the cell also had to pre-exist it. But the point is, a cell, the basis of all life, is already massively complex and works intelligently. And blind, random things can't produce such a thing. So, you're right back to what you believe blind, non-intelligent things can produce - or even have the potential to become - as even that first cell requires an unfathomable explanation of it not being created, designed, produced, and given just the right conditions to exist and live! That's one astounding and mathematically improbable "if."

Actually the "IF" I used was under the assumption of cells (plural) not cell (singular). Your response was under the assumption I was speaking of a single cell always existing.

Nicki wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:59 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:16 pm

Ken: "If cells have always existed, I can see it as only a matter of time before they can join and evolve into an intelligent being."

Ken, I love your casual use of the word "if." And a simple cell could not have evolved to become such. As at its most basic design and functionality, it is already MASSIVELY complex - more so than any machine man has ever built! ALL of it's components must be in place, at one time, for it to function as a cell. And, of course, as a biological component, the perfect conditions for the cell also had to pre-exist it. But the point is, a cell, the basis of all life, is already massively complex and works intelligently. And blind, random things can't produce such a thing. So, you're right back to what you believe blind, non-intelligent things can produce - or even have the potential to become - as even that first cell requires an unfathomable explanation of it not being created, designed, produced, and given just the right conditions to exist and live! That's one astounding and mathematically improbable "if."

Actually the "IF" I used was under the assumption of cells (plural) not cell (singular). Your response was under the assumption I was speaking of a single cell always existing.

Maybe I missed something, but why are you all talking about cells having always existed? Cells are part of living beings (or living beings in themselves), which are not supposed to have existed until a long time after the origin of the universe, right?

Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:53 pm

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 pm Kenny, I'm wondering, do you consider a cell to be life?

I guess so. Unless it's a dead cell; why do you ask?

K: Because if you cells are life, and you believe cells have always existed, then you also believe life has always existed. While there's much more to be had, it seems to me like you're not really too far away from also believing intelligence has always existed. I mean why not?

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:17 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:53 pm

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 pm Kenny, I'm wondering, do you consider a cell to be life?

I guess so. Unless it's a dead cell; why do you ask?

Because if you cells are life, and you believe cells have always existed, then you also believe life has always existed. While there's much more to be had, it seems to me like you're not really too far away from also believing intelligence has always existed. I mean why not?

Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:04 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

You spoke of an eternally existing intelligent being; what else could you possibly be talking about???

Indeed, Christians call something that is eternal, all powerful, all knowing and all present God, but what do YOU call it?

If I met someone who were eternal, all powerful, knew everything, and present everywhere, how would I know they were, unless I was? Am I just supposed to just take their word for it?

Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:04 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

You spoke of an eternally existing intelligent being; what else could you possibly be talking about???

Indeed, Christians call something that is eternal, all powerful, all knowing and all present God, but what do YOU call it?

If I met someone who were eternal, all powerful, knew everything, and present everywhere, how would I know they were, unless I was? Am I just supposed to just take their word for it?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:54 amDo you think that, IF you met an Omnipotent being you wouldn't know?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:54 amThat aside, My question still stands, what would you call something ( a force, energy, whatever) that has always existed, that effects everything, all the time, that, without it, nothing would exist?

Kenny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:14 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:04 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

You spoke of an eternally existing intelligent being; what else could you possibly be talking about???

Indeed, Christians call something that is eternal, all powerful, all knowing and all present God, but what do YOU call it?

If I met someone who were eternal, all powerful, knew everything, and present everywhere, how would I know they were, unless I was? Am I just supposed to just take their word for it?

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:54 amDo you think that, IF you met an Omnipotent being you wouldn't know?

That is correct; I would have no way of knowing.

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:54 amThat aside, My question still stands, what would you call something ( a force, energy, whatever) that has always existed, that effects everything, all the time, that, without it, nothing would exist?

If it were only a force or energy, I would call it a force or energy. If it were intelligent and able to communicate with me, I would call it whatever it wants to be called.