Evidence for God from Science

crochet1949 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote: Where is the gift of "driving out demons" mentioned in the Bible?

Mark 16:17-18

ACB,

Are you really saying those verses apply to people today?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/snake-handling ... d=22551754

Why are you using that as an example? Those people are wacko's Taking up serpents has nothing to do with tempting God. Taking up serpents is like being a Christian missionary going into a foreign land with sicknesses,etc and being protected from the sickness,etc. There was no snake handling where I saw a demon get cast out. I wish you could see demons afraid and scared of Jesus because just like the bible says demons tremble at the name of Jesus just like in the bible like when Jesus cast out demons and they went into the swine ran down into the water and drowned,They were afraid that Jesus came to torment them and they act the very same way when they hear about Jesus today. It makes the pages of the bible come alive and it is the same world wide. I personally don't agree with the way Catholics deal with demon possession,but I'm a Protestant.

There is a passage Mark 16:17-18 - these signs will accompany those who believe; In my name they will drive out demons; speak in new tongues; pick up snakes with their hands; and then they drink deadly poisons, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.
got Questions.org has an interesting article about that.
And it Is more about God's protection when going out with the Gospel. Jesus was talking with the Eleven that He was challenging just before He ascended back into heaven.

It is Very different from churches who practice snake handling for whatever reason.

Crochet,

If those verses in mark are talking about people today having God's protection, then why did those missionaries in the links I posted in my previous post, die from malaria? Did they not have the "gift"? Perhaps they lacked faith?

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote: Where is the gift of "driving out demons" mentioned in the Bible?

Mark 16:17-18

ACB,

Are you really saying those verses apply to people today?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/snake-handling ... d=22551754

Why are you using that as an example? Those people are wacko's Taking up serpents has nothing to do with tempting God. Taking up serpents is like being a Christian missionary going into a foreign land with sicknesses,etc and being protected from the sickness,etc. There was no snake handling where I saw a demon get cast out. I wish you could see demons afraid and scared of Jesus because just like the bible says demons tremble at the name of Jesus just like in the bible like when Jesus cast out demons and they went into the swine ran down into the water and drowned,They were afraid that Jesus came to torment them and they act the very same way when they hear about Jesus today. It makes the pages of the bible come alive and it it the same world wide. I personally don't agree with the way Catholics deal with demon possession,but I'm a Protestant.

You picked the verses as an example, not me. I asked where in the Bible it says that "driving out demons" is a gift. Your verses listed it among other supposed gifts. Are you saying that those "gifts" only apply to missionaries?

What about this guy who died from malaria?
http://www.alexcityoutlook.com/2016/06/ ... h-malaria/


Or this man?
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/ ... _doin.html


Or this woman?
http://www.bpnews.net/44806/imb-mission ... -in-malawi

Or this man?
http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/m/archives/36601/

Were they "wackos" tempting God?

Is that supposed to be evidence against what the Bible says? I've heard testimonies from Christian missionaries where they were protected from sickness while certain villagers,etc were sick. Do times when perhaps certain ones were not protected do away with it? I don't think so. To me what is kinda shocking is to somehow think demon possession only happened back then and not today,that it somehow ceased. All I can say is I saw a demon possessed person and I saw how it effected her when the demon manifested,I saw the demon make her stick her fingers in her ears,etc I saw the difference in the person when the demon did not manifest itself and when it did,I heard the demon speak and I noticed how afraid of Jesus it was,I saw it cast out of her and it was all real,it was not fake,nobody could fake what I saw,it would be impossible to fake it and it made the pages of the bible come to life. If you don't believe a Christian testimony about it then what can I do? But I know what I saw standing only about ten foot away.

Matthew 12:43-45

acb wrote:


Is that supposed to be evidence against what the Bible says? I've heard testimonies from Christian missionaries where they were protected from sickness while certain villagers,etc were sick. Do times when perhaps certain ones were not protected do away with it? I don't think so. To me what is kinda shocking is to somehow think demon possession only happened back then and not today,that it somehow ceased. All I can say is I saw a demon possessed person and I saw how it effected her when the demon manifested,I saw the demon make her stick her fingers in her ears,etc I saw the difference in the person when the demon did not manifest itself and when it did,I heard the demon speak and I noticed how afraid of Jesus it was,I saw it cast out of her and it was all real,it was not fake,nobody could fake what I saw,it would be impossible to fake it and it made the pages of the bible come to life. If you don't believe a Christian testimony about it then what can I do? But I know what I saw standing only about ten foot away.

Aye!

I ask a question, and instead of answering my question, you go off on a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with my question. I never made any claims about whether demon possession is real. I never said anything about disbelieving anyone's testimony regarding demon possession.

I simply asked for biblical proof that "driving out demons" is a gift.

I'm starting to see what Audie has been dealing with. Ask for one thing, and get something completely unrelated to what I asked.

I guess it's my fault for asking such a direct question regarding backing up your claim. Can you ever actually provide any proof, actual proof, for any of the claims you make?


No proof. Just rabbit trails.

RickD wrote:

acb wrote:


Is that supposed to be evidence against what the Bible says? I've heard testimonies from Christian missionaries where they were protected from sickness while certain villagers,etc were sick. Do times when perhaps certain ones were not protected do away with it? I don't think so. To me what is kinda shocking is to somehow think demon possession only happened back then and not today,that it somehow ceased. All I can say is I saw a demon possessed person and I saw how it effected her when the demon manifested,I saw the demon make her stick her fingers in her ears,etc I saw the difference in the person when the demon did not manifest itself and when it did,I heard the demon speak and I noticed how afraid of Jesus it was,I saw it cast out of her and it was all real,it was not fake,nobody could fake what I saw,it would be impossible to fake it and it made the pages of the bible come to life. If you don't believe a Christian testimony about it then what can I do? But I know what I saw standing only about ten foot away.

Aye!

I ask a question, and instead of answering my question, you go off on a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with my question. I never made any claims about whether demon possession is real. I never said anything about disbelieving anyone's testimony regarding demon possession.

I simply asked for biblical proof that "driving out demons" is a gift.

I'm starting to see what Audie has been dealing with. Ask for one thing, and get something completely unrelated to what I asked.

I guess it's my fault for asking such a direct question regarding backing up your claim. Can you ever actually provide any proof, actual proof, for any of the claims you make?


No proof. Just rabbit trails.

Sorry you feel like that.Demon possession is an area that doesn't get talked about much but I answered you. How could I prove to you I saw a demon cast out of a person? It was not videotaped. I guess I was surprised why you would ask where it says its a gift. But I answered you and showed you where it says it is a gift. I mean say a Christian told you they had been saved years ago,could they prove it to you? I shared a testimony about what I saw and know about demon possession.When I brought it up as a gift and you questioned me about where the bible says its a gift,it implies you are doubtful about it.You might be,but I showed you how it is a gift and gave a few examples of where the bible teaches about it.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

acb wrote:


Is that supposed to be evidence against what the Bible says? I've heard testimonies from Christian missionaries where they were protected from sickness while certain villagers,etc were sick. Do times when perhaps certain ones were not protected do away with it? I don't think so. To me what is kinda shocking is to somehow think demon possession only happened back then and not today,that it somehow ceased. All I can say is I saw a demon possessed person and I saw how it effected her when the demon manifested,I saw the demon make her stick her fingers in her ears,etc I saw the difference in the person when the demon did not manifest itself and when it did,I heard the demon speak and I noticed how afraid of Jesus it was,I saw it cast out of her and it was all real,it was not fake,nobody could fake what I saw,it would be impossible to fake it and it made the pages of the bible come to life. If you don't believe a Christian testimony about it then what can I do? But I know what I saw standing only about ten foot away.

Aye!

I ask a question, and instead of answering my question, you go off on a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with my question. I never made any claims about whether demon possession is real. I never said anything about disbelieving anyone's testimony regarding demon possession.

I simply asked for biblical proof that "driving out demons" is a gift.

I'm starting to see what Audie has been dealing with. Ask for one thing, and get something completely unrelated to what I asked.

I guess it's my fault for asking such a direct question regarding backing up your claim. Can you ever actually provide any proof, actual proof, for any of the claims you make?


No proof. Just rabbit trails.

Sorry you feel like that.Demon possession is an area that doesn't get talked about much but I answered you. How could I prove to you I saw a demon cast out of a person? It was not videotaped. I guess I was surprised why you would ask where it says its a gift. But I answered you and showed you where it says it is a gift. I mean say a Christian told you they had been saved years ago,could they prove it to you? I shared a testimony about what I saw and know about demon possession.When I brought it up as a gift and you questioned me about where the bible says its a gift,it implies you are doubtful about it.You might be,but I showed you how it is a gift and gave a few examples of where the bible teaches about it.

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mark 16:17-18

ACB,

Are you really saying those verses apply to people today?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/snake-handling ... d=22551754

Why are you using that as an example? Those people are wacko's Taking up serpents has nothing to do with tempting God. Taking up serpents is like being a Christian missionary going into a foreign land with sicknesses,etc and being protected from the sickness,etc. There was no snake handling where I saw a demon get cast out. I wish you could see demons afraid and scared of Jesus because just like the bible says demons tremble at the name of Jesus just like in the bible like when Jesus cast out demons and they went into the swine ran down into the water and drowned,They were afraid that Jesus came to torment them and they act the very same way when they hear about Jesus today. It makes the pages of the bible come alive and it is the same world wide. I personally don't agree with the way Catholics deal with demon possession,but I'm a Protestant.

There is a passage Mark 16:17-18 - these signs will accompany those who believe; In my name they will drive out demons; speak in new tongues; pick up snakes with their hands; and then they drink deadly poisons, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.
got Questions.org has an interesting article about that.
And it Is more about God's protection when going out with the Gospel. Jesus was talking with the Eleven that He was challenging just before He ascended back into heaven.

It is Very different from churches who practice snake handling for whatever reason.

Crochet,

If those verses in mark are talking about people today having God's protection, then why did those missionaries in the links I posted in my previous post, die from malaria? Did they not have the "gift"? Perhaps they lacked faith?

My only intent was presenting the passage that was being talked about -- the snake bite that was not fatal in that Scripture. Chances Are that That protection was meant specifically for that group being sent out. Missionaries Have
reported seeing God's protection around them in very dire circumstances and found that people back home were feeling led to pray for them at a certain time.

Missionaries get sick and die just like everyone else.

Demon possession is very real and the demons Do cause a person to do things uncontrollably. We first hear of demons being caste out is in the Bible -- Jesus Christ does it. If a person witnesses a person being delivered from demon possession these days -- praise the Lord that it Did happen. But -- having a 'gift' to exorcise a demon from someone ? It's Not listed as a spiritual gift that someone is given. I was just asking my husband about that -- he's got a MA in theology.
Maybe what was being observed was a demon possessed person accepting Christ as their Savior. The demon would be responding to God's Word and leaving the person.
All this is probably why we are Not to mess around with witch-craft. Witch covens, etc. it's dangerous business. My husband was on contact with that stuff for a short time while in the Air Force many years ago. People can get very emotionally excited and 'stuff' can happen with them that is Not normal or good.

Crochet: All this is probably why we are Not to mess around with witch-craft. Witch covens, etc. it's dangerous business. My husband was on contact with that stuff for a short time while in the Air Force many years ago. People can get very emotionally excited and 'stuff' can happen with them that is Not normal or good.

Weird - at first I didn't get the connection between him being in the air force and witchcraft. But then I realized, witches fly on brooms, the Air Force faces evil threats from the air. Got it!

It's Also possible that someone was 'playing with you' -- some people are really good actors / one of my granddaughters is a definite 'drama queen'. People can put on a good show for someone when they want to. And sometimes multiple-personality disorders in a person or schizophrenia / various mental disorders can mimic.

Philip wrote:

Crochet: All this is probably why we are Not to mess around with witch-craft. Witch covens, etc. it's dangerous business. My husband was on contact with that stuff for a short time while in the Air Force many years ago. People can get very emotionally excited and 'stuff' can happen with them that is Not normal or good.

Weird - at first I didn't get the connection between him being in the air force and witchcraft. But then I realized, witches fly on brooms, the Air Force faces evil threats from the air. Got it!

Not exactly -- he Did get involved in a Pentecostal group for a short time -- experienced speaking in tongues -- observed people getting very emotionally worked up -- saw people / chairs getting picked up -- moved across a room and getting set down again. He got out of That very quickly. He realized it was Not Scriptural.

crochet1949 wrote:Demon possession is very real and the demons Do cause a person to do things uncontrollably. We first hear of demons being caste out is in the Bible -- Jesus Christ does it. If a person witnesses a person being delivered from demon possession these days -- praise the Lord that it Did happen. But -- having a 'gift' to exorcise a demon from someone ? It's Not listed as a spiritual gift that someone is given. I was just asking my husband about that -- he's got a MA in theology.
Maybe what was being observed was a demon possessed person accepting Christ as their Savior. The demon would be responding to God's Word and leaving the person.
All this is probably why we are Not to mess around with witch-craft. Witch covens, etc. it's dangerous business. My husband was on contact with that stuff for a short time while in the Air Force many years ago. People can get very emotionally excited and 'stuff' can happen with them that is Not normal or good.

I went through an exorcism when I was 11 or 12 years old. Think the demons came back though, 'cause look at me now right?

Sadly, the way in which Christians often proclaim someone is demon possessed or influenced is quite extreme. Especially amongst some Pentecostals. It's an embarrassment really, especially if many were aware to it.

It is interesting, that in many cases Jesus cast out demons, people were sick with real physical ailments. Rather than saying it was simply demon possession (many Christians), or that Jesus just didn't know better about physical ailments (skeptics), perhaps this more that illustrates a strong connection between physical sicknesses people receive and the invisible unseen forces of the world who are against God.

Such invisible forces shouldn't be neglected by Christians, but at the same time it reaches extreme UFO conspiracy levels that just ought to be shot down by more level-headed Christians.

The real issue, to me, is that there is NO evidence that shows that healing or exorcism, as done by Jesus and His Apostles, is a GIFT still around TODAY. That is a far different matter. And if someone asserts that such GIFTS exist, then the evidence for that is beyond obscure! And as such miracles in Scripture were typically tied to show the ultimate Authority, not of the one who intiated the miracle, but the One Who made it possible (God!). These were not done like magic tricks or the freakshows many churches put on while asserting their "show" is the same thing. Again, if this were happening, the word of it would be overwhelming and crowds would jam every place such healers showed up. Video of it would be prolific. Yet, we have none of that. So, something really smells about such claims of such GIFTS.

All of that said, I do not deny nor doubt that the miraculous still occurs. But those claiming such a GIFT have a high bar of proof to show - and from my awareness, they ain't doing it!

Philip wrote:The real issue, to me, is that there is NO evidence that shows that healing or exorcism, as done by Jesus and His Apostles, is a GIFT still around TODAY. That is a far different matter. And if someone asserts that such GIFTS exist, then the evidence for that is beyond obscure! And as such miracles in Scripture were typically tied to show the ultimate Authority, not of the one who intiated the miracle, but the One Who made it possible (God!). These were not done like magic tricks or the freakshows many churches put on while asserting their "show" is the same thing. Again, if this were happening, the word of it would be overwhelming and crowds would jam ever place such healers showed up. Video of it would be prolific. Yet, we have none of that. So, something really smells about such claims of such GIFTS.

All of that said, I do not deny nor doubt that the miraculous still occurs. But those claiming such a GIFT have a high bar of proof to show - and from my awareness, they ain't doing it!

Yes, Jesus Christ was performing miracles to get the attention of the people that something Extra-ordinary was happening. He was doing His Father's business. He would ultimately die For us /mankind on the cross so that 'we' could be back into complete fellowship with the Father just like it was in Garden of Eden.
But -- there is Also a battle going on in the spiritual realm -- Satan vs God -- everyone has a time on this earth-- but our Real eternal home will either be in heaven or hell.
Physical healing is sometimes Here and definitely in Heaven.
But while Here -- satan wants mankind to get side-tracked into worshipping him -- give our soul to him -- spending eternity with him. How does a person get rid of satanic influence? submit to God / resist the devil and he will leave you alone. A real 'exorcism' ? A person hears the Gospel and accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior and the demonic spirit will leave so the Holy Spirit CAN enter and Stay.

Unfortunately there are many who don't want to hear about God -- satan is busy deceiving people into Not wanting to listen. And there are those who refuse to accept the world of the miraculous because it shows that there is a higher power doing Something.

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

jpbg33 wrote:I don't mind you not agreeing completely with me, but what part is biblically wrong with what I said?

by the way I am agreeing with you on this subject.

didn't think I would agree with you or abelcainsbrother on any thing but I do mostly on this.

Why wouldn't you agree with me? If it says it in the bible? I believe it and I do my best to reject doctrines of men like the gifts died out when the apostles died,etc. I believe the bible,every born again Christian has the same Holy Spirit Jesus had in them and so we do still have gifts of the Spirit and I've seen some demonstrated that convinced me,like getting a word of knowledge,etc,seeing a demon get cast out of a person,etc.I've seen a demon tremble at the name of Jesus like we read about in the bible.They are scared and afraid of Jesus,they know who he is. And after seeing a demon get cast out of a person I know that it makes no difference world wide. You could be in China and have a demon possessed person and that demon will respond to the name of Jesus even if you said it in English there,they know who he is world wide.

Where is the gift of "driving out demons" mentioned in the Bible?

There isn't a gift of driving out demons mentioned in the bible.

Instead, it is part of the rights one has as a Christian disciple to defend oneself and defend others.

Since folks make a mockery of it in the movies and some over zealous types in the church abuse this right does not mean that demon oppression and or possession is not real nor happening today.

Just read the news or just watch Hillary Clinton for the best examples or simply work in the field of law enforcement or child protection and you will learn how real it is...
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