Evidence for God from Science

Take what DBowling says, with a grain of salt. Remember, he voted for Ewan McGregor.

What might be true, is that Trump was wiretapped, but he had not certainty as to what entity was responsible, and as the left has shown itself opposing him everywhere possible, he may have just jumped to conclusions and tweeted his thoughts of the moment - which is stupid. He might be a slow learner on how his impulsiveness will hurt him. Again, the order to share intelligence across agencies, coming in the very last days of Obama's term - that might have opened to door to who knows what? Do I doubt that is possible - not the least. Do I think it's true - I'm open to it. But I sure don't think Trump knew, as he would have revealed it, if he had such evidence. What is happening now is a hunt for leakers and those who might have been working with them. So the investigations might yet turn up some dirty tricksters.

Philip wrote:What might be true, is that Trump was wiretapped, but he had not certainty as to what entity was responsible, and as the left has shown itself opposing him everywhere possible, he may have just jumped to conclusions and tweeted his thoughts of the moment - which is stupid. He might be a slow learner on how his impulsiveness will hurt him. Again, the order to share intelligence across agencies, coming in the very last days of Obama's term - that might have opened to door to who knows what? Do I doubt that is possible - not the least. Do I think it's true - I'm open to it. But I sure don't think Trump knew, as he would have revealed it, if he had such evidence. What is happening now is a hunt for leakers and those who might have been working with them. So the investigations might yet turn up some dirty tricksters.

I don't see how because they have been investigating this for awhle now and Jake Tapper has made it clear there is no evidence of collusion between Trump and his team so this is just going to hurt the liberal MSM's credibility and the left even more than it is now the way they have pushed this fake news for so long.I mean liberals were taking this so far that Trump was going to be impeached based on this and yet there is no evidence.Remember ed getting his hopes up? I told him they are setting him up to be dissapointed like when they led him to believe Trump had no chance and Hillary was going to win.I've told over and over that we need to believe the opposite of about 95% of what the MSM reports because liberals and the MSM are known to accuse Republicans of what they do and are,while trying to hide their guiltyness.It is Hillary and her campaign that colluded with the Russians and this is coming out now.As far as Trump it is not unreasonable for him to assume the Obama administration wire-tapped him based on Obama using the IRS to go after Tea Partiers,spying on a Fox news reporter,etc There is probable cause to assume Obama had ordered this even if Trump did just tweet it out in the heat of the moment like you say.I still believe Trump will be vindicated like he said.

Trump says he will submit evidence of wiretapping to House committee 'very soon'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03 ... -soon.html

It won't matter, there will always be something else. To be honest, I'd love it if all politicians spoke their minds by tweeting rather than having everything they say filtered and rehearsed.

It won't matter because it won't happen because Trump was talking out of his ass. They've all been all over the news trying to walk it back. If they had evidence they wouldn't be backpedaling and telling ridiculous lies.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

DBowling wrote: Just curious...

If it eventually turns out that Obama did not have Trump wiretapped...
Would you be willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

Yes I will.I don't like lying which is why I've supported Trump all of this time. However I believe he will be vindicated just like he says.We know that the Obama administration used the IRS to go after Tea Partiers and spied on a Fox News reporter so he has a history of this kind of abuse of power.Trump has the evidence and he is sitting on it,for now.

What about you and this Russia conspiracy theory will you admit it is lies and slander against Trump and his campaign?

Well Comey and the NSA Chief have now testified at the House Intelligence hearing.
Both Comey and Mike Rogers both testified under oath that there was no information to support Trump's accusation that Obama had Trump wiretapped.

However Comey also testified under oath that there is an ongoing investigation underway into Russia's interference in the American election as well as whether there was cooperation between the Russians and members of Trump's campaign.

So are you willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

The supposed wiretapping at Trump Tower was a reaction to Trump's private conversations with other leaders getting leaked. So, he was extremely angry over that - and it happened more than once. So, he was likely paranoid, and not truly understanding how things worked, who could order what, etc. - he pounced on twitter, without clear evidence. But the bigger picture is that someone has been leaking his private conversations - ones not meant for all ears. That is very serious stuff. The fact that he didn't know who he could trust, with so many Obama holdovers throughout government, is likely why he thought Obama was behind what he thought had also occurred at Trump Tower. So, he leapt before he knew what was going on. But he definitely had reasons to be paranoid, per what had just otherwise occurred. And THAT is a fact - and a very serious and dangerous one - but do you think the media will focus on THAT? They love anytime he is wrong and want to ruin him. But I do hope he learned from his impulsiveness. BTW, the questions asked at the hearing reveal that others wanted clarification, concerning who could order what level of surveillance. So, it is unsurprising that Trump was uncertain.

Did some Trump campaign people collude with the Russians? There's no proof of such. And an investigation, until it reveals something, should be considered as a neutral thing. Meanwhile, the media ignores things like Hillary's vast illegal emailing, keeping a private server with government secrets on it, and then lying about it. Or how she was using inside info on debate questions, etc. If the media had been half as tough on Hillary as they are on Trump, she never would have made it to the nomination. It is disturbing that people want to turn mistakes of Trump into reasons to hate him or get rid of him. Really, I have issues with Trump, but I do see the double standards, and how so many are just hoping he will fail. That is exactly the opposite of the hopes I had, despite my misgivings, about Obama's first term. I hoped he'd surprise us all - but in good ways. DB, your bias is very obvious.

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

DBowling wrote: Just curious...

If it eventually turns out that Obama did not have Trump wiretapped...
Would you be willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

Yes I will.I don't like lying which is why I've supported Trump all of this time. However I believe he will be vindicated just like he says.We know that the Obama administration used the IRS to go after Tea Partiers and spied on a Fox News reporter so he has a history of this kind of abuse of power.Trump has the evidence and he is sitting on it,for now.

What about you and this Russia conspiracy theory will you admit it is lies and slander against Trump and his campaign?

Well Comey and the NSA Chief have now testified at the House Intelligence hearing.
Both Comey and Mike Rogers both testified under oath that there was no information to support Trump's accusation that Obama had Trump wiretapped.

However Comey also testified under oath that there is an ongoing investigation underway into Russia's interference in the American election as well as whether there was cooperation between the Russians and members of Trump's campaign.

So are you willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

So we had an investigation going on for months and they found no evidence of Russia changing votes or collusion with Russia from Trump and yet you believe they did not listen in on his calls at Trump Tower? It would be a weak investigation if they did'nt.I know it is'nt proof but just from logic it tells us they were listening in on his calls,Comey just won't come out and admit it.Also the only crimes revealed was the leaking of classified material to the media which is a federal crime that can put a person in prison for ten years.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

DBowling wrote: Just curious...

If it eventually turns out that Obama did not have Trump wiretapped...
Would you be willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

Yes I will.I don't like lying which is why I've supported Trump all of this time. However I believe he will be vindicated just like he says.We know that the Obama administration used the IRS to go after Tea Partiers and spied on a Fox News reporter so he has a history of this kind of abuse of power.Trump has the evidence and he is sitting on it,for now.

Well Comey and the NSA Chief have now testified at the House Intelligence hearing.
Both Comey and Mike Rogers both testified under oath that there was no information to support Trump's accusation that Obama had Trump wiretapped.

However Comey also testified under oath that there is an ongoing investigation underway into Russia's interference in the American election as well as whether there was cooperation between the Russians and members of Trump's campaign.

So are you willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

So we had an investigation going on for months and they found no evidence of Russia changing votes or collusion with Russia from Trump and yet you believe they did not listen in on his calls at Trump Tower?

This has been explained a number of times. And it was even explained in the hearings before Congress

If you are investigating potential collusion with the Russians, who do you listen to?
The Russians

The intelligence community is monitoring the Russians. And as you and Phillip point out, the only real crime that has been discovered so far is the leaking of names of Trump's people who were communicating with the Russians who were being monitored. And that was discussed at the hearing as well.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Comey just won't come out and admit it.

No... Comey, the NSA, and Trump's own Justice Department all agree that there is no evidence to support Trump's claim that Obama had Trump wiretapped.

So now that sworn testimony before Congress has demonstrated that Trump's claim that Obama had him wiretapped was a lie...
Are you willing to admit that Trump's accusations constitute 'lies and slander' against Obama?

Trump Tower was wiretapped.
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.c ... 3D46266198
If you guys are naive enough to believe Comey, then I don't know what to tell you.

You seriously think Comey is going to come out and admit Trump was wiretapped?

RickD wrote:Trump Tower was wiretapped.
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.c ... 3D46266198
If you guys are naive enough to believe Comey, then I don't know what to tell you.

You seriously think Comey is going to come out and admit Trump was wiretapped?

As I explained above...
It's NOT just Comey.

It's Comey, the NSA, ...
And Trump's very own Justice Department!

The only two people I can think of who are even pretending to perpetuate Trump's lie these days are...
Trump and Spicer

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote:Trump Tower was wiretapped.
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.c ... 3D46266198
If you guys are naive enough to believe Comey, then I don't know what to tell you.

You seriously think Comey is going to come out and admit Trump was wiretapped?

As I explained above...
It's NOT just Comey.

It's Comey, the NSA, ...
And Trump's very own Justice Department!

The only two people I can think of who are even pretending to perpetuate Trump's lie these days are...
Trump and Spicer

Was someone listening in on people in Trump Tower?
Was Trump himself being listened to?
Did Obama know about this?

Are you really that naive to dismiss these questions?

RickD wrote: Was someone listening in on people in Trump Tower?

There is zero evidence to support the premise that Trump Tower was either Wiretapped or bugged in any other manner

Was Trump himself being listened to?

There is zero evidence to support the premise that Trump himself was wiretapped, bugged, or is even under investigation.

Did Obama know about this?

Obama obviously didn't know about things that never happened.

Are you really that naive to dismiss these questions?

I didn't dismiss them, but the evidence is now out and Trump's accusation that he was wiretapped by Obama has been demonstrated to have been false... by the FBI, NSA, and Trump's own Justice Department.

I am definitely not naive enough to take anything that Trump says in his tweetstorms seriously unless it is corroborated by a reliable independent source.

Rick, that ABC story has nothing to do with the elections or with Trump's claims.

Trump said that Obama bugged him, not that the FBI was surveiling Russian mobsters in his building during an investigation that ended a couple of years before he announced his candidacy for President. Why are you doing such strenuous mental gymnastics to try and justify an obvious, stupid lie?

The real story in your link is that there were Russian money launderers based in Trump Tower. I'm guessing he didn't know that, because if he did then his wiretapping lie was even stupider than it seems.