Evidence for God from Science

Saw this in the news, the shroud is back on display! It's too bad it's too far away to go see.
I'm posting the link from the BBC, though, because it gives dated misinformation saying:

Some devotees believe the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Sceptics point to carbon dating that suggests it is a medieval forgery from the 1300s.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32368134

You should email and correct them Bippy

Edit:
P.s. Does anyone know if the shroud documentary on Netflix is an acceptable introduction to the shroud? If I remember right it's filled with dated misinformation as well, but wondering if anyone's watched it.

BBC quote form Mallz link:

Some devotees believe the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Sceptics point to carbon dating that suggests it is a medieval forgery from the 1300s.
Scientists have not agreed on how the image of a man was imprinted on the cloth.

both of these quotes are simply absurd.

The Shroud's carbon dating is well beyond any speculation that adheres to a mid 13th century forgery. Google it! It's there...

Scientists have nothing to agree upon in regards to the image. There is currently no way for the image to have been "imprinted", and that's as of 20th century scientific endeavor, (radiation best bet ?) unable to explain the how's but able to confirm all the how nots, especially available to anyone from the 13th century.


As you correctly point out Mallz, there is a bunch of misinformation and I cannot for the life of me figure out why ? If people wish to, in print form, video or interviews, all they have to do is Google the Shroud and all the latest, most pertinent information is available.

So what does this say ? Is the BBC (et al) simply too lazy to check out what may be the latest info or is it more sinister where as they purposefully intend to misinform for whatever their reasons may be.

and finally Mallz, I do not have Net Flix and cannot help with the quality of it's "latest" info available. I would suspect there is at least some newer info not on Net Flix only because their is new popping up pretty regularly. Bippy would be best,but he's not been in for a while and hopefully will be able to find time and a server to get back to us... He's missed, yes ?

You know, on news it mentioned the showing of the shroud. The announcer said the exact same thing that Mallz mentioned
-- "skeptics believe its a 1300 forgery" and a chuckled. Seriously old news that.

But the cards of a secular humanist society become more and more revealed.
Anything "Christian" must be put down and trampled. Indeed any belief that supports belief in God.
Are their beliefs really so fickle that they feel challenged by the authenticity of the shroud?

At the end of the day, what is so significant about the shroud really...
and I mean really what is so significant that we don't already know?

It proves Jesus was killed and wrapped in linen. Right?
And why wouldn't we expect Jesus' shroud to have been kept by his followers?
Historians broadly accept beyond a doubt that a man such as Jesus existed and was crucified by Pontius Pilate.
What many react to is injecting any "miraculous" element that Jesus rose from the dead.

"Skeptics" would be better off arguing that the shrouds were taken and kept after Jesus' body was stolen.
And "skeptics" is in quotes, because often those touting are skeptics are not "true skeptics" for they are blindly accepting of one side over another.

K wrote:
But the cards of a secular humanist society become more and more revealed.
Anything "Christian" must be put down and trampled. Indeed any belief that supports belief in God.
Are their beliefs really so fickle that they feel challenged by the authenticity of the shroud?

You know K, this is the type of end times attitude that must prevail among the citizens of earth to hasten the 2nd coming, if I remember some of the info regarding the last days scenario. It sort of scares you thinking we as a people are not intuitive enough to realize we are honestly, possibly creating the path way for evil to sacrilegiously wedge it's way in to society and due such great harm. We allow it, just like it was revealed and we, as a group (non Christian) don't see it for what it is, or don't care.

If the end of days is as bad as it seems in description, why does or international populous endeavor to "bring it on". It is said, I think, between 10 and 30% of world wide population is all that will be left after the "big ugly" begins... It's not like the scenario is not out in main stream and pop and whatever's cultures... it is...

Do they just not believe it or are they so seduced they just don't care ?

The journey began for me in the mid 70's, I was reading The Late Great Planet Earth on the advice of a friend. I thought back then, who in their right mind would allow thee kind of scenarios to play out. The press would illuminate the bad guys and their plans, the U.S. would continue to support the rest of the world in freedom keeping, major international obstacles would be hashed out by treaties .... none of this happens today and we are degenerating in to this incredibly vulnerable secular society, and have been for nearly a generation and the norm is now what I thought 40 years ago could never be accepted by so many. We, as Christian in thought and deed, are no longer the majority. In fact it feels like we are the discriminated against minority. We still have the numbers but not the influence.

Are their beliefs really so fickle that they feel challenged by the authenticity of the shroud?

I'm of the mind to believe their beliefs are so evil and contentious towards God that ... well ... we'll see, but it sure feels like it's on the horizon and most just dare it to come.

The Shroud is a wonderful God given bright spot that they want to treat like the lamp under the bushel basket. Analogy for society as a whole ?

Kurieuo wrote:
But the cards of a secular humanist society become more and more revealed.
Anything "Christian" must be put down and trampled. Indeed any belief that supports belief in God.

Honestly, K, you are sounding less grounded here than I like to think-hope- you are.
Of course there are people on every possible point of the compass, but the number who are as you describe have to be a tiny minority. Certainly does not include me or anyone I know.

Are their beliefs really so fickle that they feel challenged by the authenticity of the shroud?

Is your rhetorical question intended as a serious question?

but easy answer, for me at least. My beliefs, all of them, are open to question. And change. Are yours?

At the end of the day, what is so significant about the shroud really...
and I mean really what is so significant that we don't already know?

do you "know" anything of any particular significance?

It proves Jesus was killed and wrapped in linen. Right?
And why wouldn't we expect Jesus' shroud to have been kept by his followers?
Historians broadly accept beyond a doubt that a man such as Jesus existed and was crucified by Pontius Pilate.
What many react to is injecting any "miraculous" element that Jesus rose from the dead.

Oh... proven. Good word. Yes. Proven.

You should have not trouble then, with proof that your "progressive creationism" is
disproved. The only trouble really is the trouble of doing a bit of quiet research on your own.

"Skeptics" would be better off arguing that the shrouds were taken and kept after Jesus' body was stolen.
And "skeptics" is in quotes, because often those touting are skeptics are not "true skeptics" for they are blindly accepting of one side over another

.

As previously noted, people come from every point of the compass. Dont you suppose that the "believers" are not often "true believers" because they blindly accept anything that fits with what they already think?

Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

The shroud is a fascinating subject to say the least and anyone that still mentions the carbon dating just shows how passe their research is.

As someone that never really cared much about it UNTIL I began to research it honestly, I can tell you this:
Those that have indeed researched, regardless of religion ( or lackthereof) have almost to a man concluded that there is something there that has not been explained.
As for forgery:
There is one very simple way to prove the POSSIBILITY of a forgery- forge one.
This has NEVER BEEN done.
No one has been able to reproduce the shroud image with all the characteristics of the one on the shroud, NO ONE.

If it can't be reproduced even today with 21th century technology then the POSSIBILITY of forgery is, well, it doesn't exist.

1over137 wrote:Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

Like some others we know

http://arflovers.com/Blog/images/12_18_07_peanuts1.jpg

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

Like some others we know

http://arflovers.com/Blog/images/12_18_07_peanuts1.jpg

1over137 wrote:

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

Like some others we know

http://arflovers.com/Blog/images/12_18_07_peanuts1.jpg

But he tries, isnt that important?

On the upside, ES and I are on speaking terms, no small thanks to you.

Good work.

Let us all rather get back to topic: God, from concept to existence The Shroud of Turin

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

Like some others we know

http://arflovers.com/Blog/images/12_18_07_peanuts1.jpg

But he tries, isnt that important?

On the upside, ES and I are on speaking terms, no small thanks to you.

Good work.

Audie,

That's because you can't ignore everyone at the same time. You wouldn't have anyone to talk down to speak with.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:

Audie wrote:

1over137 wrote:Audie,

K is the type of person who researches a lot.

Like some others we know

http://arflovers.com/Blog/images/12_18_07_peanuts1.jpg

But he tries, isnt that important?

On the upside, ES and I are on speaking terms, no small thanks to you.

Good work.

Audie,

That's because you can't ignore everyone at the same time. You wouldn't have anyone to talk down to speak with.

She hasn't ignored me yet

But he tries, isnt that important?

On the upside, ES and I are on speaking terms, no small thanks to you.

But what about ME, Audie, do you still love me as well? If you can't tell, I'm rather partial to you. I like feisty women - it's just that being married to one is a bit of a challenge .

Philip wrote:

But he tries, isnt that important?

On the upside, ES and I are on speaking terms, no small thanks to you.

But what about ME, Audie, do you still love me as well? If you can't tell, I'm rather partial to you. I like feisty women - it's just that being married to one is a bit of a challenge .

Always