Evidence for God from Science

The rapture is an ugly debate. it makes me sad to see so many people who get upset because of their stand on it. Look...scripture says it pretty clearly. First, there is a falling away....we see on the news what just happened in Ireland. We see the consequences of our sins against the earth and each other like genetic manipulation and abortion... There ARE consequences....cause and effects.... MANY people think God is silent what with the all the wars, rumors of wars, ethnic strife, earthquakes, weather anomalies, etc. People are mad at Catholic priests and abuse...the list goes on. So...millions of people are falling away. If we do not stay on the vine...we shrivel up and fall off. That is happening now....very quickly. Yes, my fellow Christians, YES... We WILL be going through some VERY disturbing things...economic collapse, food shortages, something funky happening with our sun or an asteroid which will lead to poisoned water, death, disease, famine and a TRUE test of how "Christian " we REALLY are. Read Daniel, revelation and Matthew. Jesus tells us all this as a warning. The parable of the 10 virgins was his way of saying " I told you so". Christ warns us very clearly about what to look for....he encourages us to be prepared, both in body and spirit. Keep oil in your lamps...keep awake.
The translation will certainly take place but only AFTER the son of perdition is revealed.. He will suffer a devasTing wound to the head but will "miraculously" come back to life. I am of the personal opinion that the demonic fallen angel technology that has been kept from to general public all this time will finally be revealed when the world needs it the most. So this antichrist will talk like Jesus, act like Jesus, perform techno miracles, etc and MANY starving, sick, hurting people will RUN to their new savior...after all...the old one who was supposed to save from this turned out to be a hoax...right? I think many of you who believe that we are not called to remain as the salt of the earth during these times are mistaken. Our faith will truly be tested..and Christ encourages us to hold on....he reminds us this must happen.....we are called to endure to the end....and it's not going to be easy or pretty. A lot of us will NOT survive.
Jesus in his mercy knows this will be excruciating for us and will speed it along so we all don't put up with it for too long. So, 31/2 years of ungodly hell on the earth...wars, famine, asteroids, collapse, murdering, looting, hunger, poisoned water...and yet...those of us not killed because of our belief in Christ will still have to endure what's next....this antichrist comes in to rescue the people...I'm sure he will promise a device or implant that will heal you...no more sickness..no more aging....long long life....a false renewal...all you have to do is fall in line with the plan...the whole world will not bother with religion..after all...it was the reason for ww3 right? Evil men have kept the secret of life and health from you...and now he will make it available to all..everyone will eat and drink and have a home...he will take care of it all...and in order for you to transform your lowly human self into a super, evolving, strong , conscious, spiritually connected human...all you have to do bow down and say yes.....and the PEOPLE WILL RUN TO GET IT!!
That is when it will be hardest....we will be hunted.... Either CERN or demonic rituals will open up the hell prison and unleash all the angry, malevolent spirits...cast off from God and ready, willing and able to rule over man...these ARE NOT human! They are allowed out by God to REALLY wreck havoc now...the pit is open now...those with the mark have changed their Holy Spirit...the unforgiveable sin...they cannot be redeemed any more...they , like the fallen ones, have left their first estate...there is no turning back......NOW Jesus comes back somewhere at the end of 6-7 years (the late part of the end of the tribulation) to kick demonic butt! THAT is the great and terrible day of the Lord. Those who do the devils work, those who take the mark, and the released fallen ones are now going to be wiped out of the record for good! But BEFORE Christ comes to schoolyard to kick the bully in the face, he's going to grab us weaklings who ran behind him and hid and scoot us behind him and UP...in the twinkling of an eye...we will be in awe as we see the deceased saints float up first...then we blink...and it's all over....we have new bodies....we are raised above the drama and witness HIS fight...and we will be cheering and praising and shouting for joy! THAT is how scripture gives me the play by play on the rapture. if You find anything wrong with this.....doctrine will correct me with your citations from scripture....not a commentary or something your preacher said. Ok...I'm done.

I have been watching the shepherds chapel here lately,not that I agree with everything they teach,but I kinda like to be challenged about the way I interpret the bible.They are anti-rapture and bring it up a lot about this idea we are going to fly away is a false teaching.I still have not actually seen them teach on why it is wrong to believe in the rapture.I usually just hear bits and pieces of their argument.

I do not agree with their point about how those who believe in a rapture will be deceived by the Antichrist,like they will totally buy into Satan's deception about it.I don't buy it,because every Christian who has read the bible knows the Antichrist is coming,knows about the mark of the beast,etc.

It is even possible Satan could somehow cause a false rapture or something to deceive mankind,but this does not mean Christians will be deceived about it,only people who are nonbelievers,ignorant about it,etc.Still I like to be challenged so I watch them when I can,I find that most of what they teach I agree with.I'm just not anti a rapture.

I also understand that they believe and teach the gap theory,but I have never actually seen a teaching from them about it to know if it is the same or different than most gap theorists,as they may have an alternative view about it that I've never heard.Maybe I will actually get to see how they teach it one day.

Many bible believing Christians will be dead. The less there are of those who know the truth....the easier it will be to dupe the masses that are left...don't forget...many of the rich and powerful cocooning themselves in their bunkers will not be beheaded for their faith...I'm pretty sure the Islamist militants will have a field day hunting us down...so much so that neighbor will turn against neighbor and rat us out. With so few truth holders hiding and running for their lives, other non believers will be left...paving the way for the abomination that causes desolation...they wouldn't care WHAT was erected in the temple. It's gonna get ugly down here. As far as the gap theory...I admit it is an intellectually appealing idea....but that's all it is..an idea. There is no scriptural evidence for it. Just a few loosely interpreted lines....God always provides a double witness in His word. Nowhere does it say the Angels had this earth and God destroyed and remade it.

Hope67 wrote:Many bible believing Christians will be dead. The less there are of those who know the truth....the easier it will be to dupe the masses that are left...don't forget...many of the rich and powerful cocooning themselves in their bunkers will not be beheaded for their faith...I'm pretty sure the Islamist militants will have a field day hunting us down...so much so that neighbor will turn against neighbor and rat us out. With so few truth holders hiding and running for their lives, other non believers will be left...paving the way for the abomination that causes desolation...they wouldn't care WHAT was erected in the temple. It's gonna get ugly down here. As far as the gap theory...I admit it is an intellectually appealing idea....but that's all it is..an idea. There is no scriptural evidence for it. Just a few loosely interpreted lines....God always provides a double witness in His word. Nowhere does it say the Angels had this earth and God destroyed and remade it.

I respectfully disagree only those people who choose to die and not take the mark will be those who believed in Jesus but were never truly saved,but these people believe in Jesus and once they realize they were left behind they will choose to die for Christ and not take the mark,but God's true bride will be in heaven at the marriage supper of the lamb while the worst of the tribulation is going on.First off the Antichrist must be revealed first before the rapture will happen 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-3.

As far as the Gap theory you can try to show me how I am wrong biblically in my Gap theory thread,however if you do? I do not want to hear what you think,I only care what God's word says as that will change my mind,not doubt,favoritism for a particular creation theory,dogma,etc.I go by God's word to the best of my ability and I have never seen anybody biblically refute the Gap theory and yet even though they have tried to they still reject it for some reason out of opinion,feelings,a creation theory club mentality,etc.

I think behind all of the arguments for each creation theory,biblical prophecy theory,etc out there that behind it all is a kind of feeling or opinion that I'm saved by Jesus and there are so many different ideas out there that we can't really know the truth,I'm saved and so it is not important to really search out the truth because it does not effect my salvation and Jesus will all sort it out one day when I get there and I think peoole lean on this kind of thinking mostly while I believe we can seek out the truth now and know the truth now.

1st Peter 1:20 " Knowing this first,that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation."

Hope67 wrote:The rapture is an ugly debate. it makes me sad to see so many people who get upset because of their stand on it. Look...scripture says it pretty clearly. First, there is a falling away....we see on the news what just happened in Ireland. We see the consequences of our sins against the earth and each other like genetic manipulation and abortion... There ARE consequences....cause and effects.... MANY people think God is silent what with the all the wars, rumors of wars, ethnic strife, earthquakes, weather anomalies, etc. People are mad at Catholic priests and abuse...the list goes on. So...millions of people are falling away. If we do not stay on the vine...we shrivel up and fall off. That is happening now....very quickly. Yes, my fellow Christians, YES... We WILL be going through some VERY disturbing things...economic collapse, food shortages, something funky happening with our sun or an asteroid which will lead to poisoned water, death, disease, famine and a TRUE test of how "Christian " we REALLY are. Read Daniel, revelation and Matthew. Jesus tells us all this as a warning. The parable of the 10 virgins was his way of saying " I told you so". Christ warns us very clearly about what to look for....he encourages us to be prepared, both in body and spirit. Keep oil in your lamps...keep awake.
The translation will certainly take place but only AFTER the son of perdition is revealed.. He will suffer a devasTing wound to the head but will "miraculously" come back to life. I am of the personal opinion that the demonic fallen angel technology that has been kept from to general public all this time will finally be revealed when the world needs it the most. So this antichrist will talk like Jesus, act like Jesus, perform techno miracles, etc and MANY starving, sick, hurting people will RUN to their new savior...after all...the old one who was supposed to save from this turned out to be a hoax...right? I think many of you who believe that we are not called to remain as the salt of the earth during these times are mistaken. Our faith will truly be tested..and Christ encourages us to hold on....he reminds us this must happen.....we are called to endure to the end....and it's not going to be easy or pretty. A lot of us will NOT survive.
Jesus in his mercy knows this will be excruciating for us and will speed it along so we all don't put up with it for too long. So, 31/2 years of ungodly hell on the earth...wars, famine, asteroids, collapse, murdering, looting, hunger, poisoned water...and yet...those of us not killed because of our belief in Christ will still have to endure what's next....this antichrist comes in to rescue the people...I'm sure he will promise a device or implant that will heal you...no more sickness..no more aging....long long life....a false renewal...all you have to do is fall in line with the plan...the whole world will not bother with religion..after all...it was the reason for ww3 right? Evil men have kept the secret of life and health from you...and now he will make it available to all..everyone will eat and drink and have a home...he will take care of it all...and in order for you to transform your lowly human self into a super, evolving, strong , conscious, spiritually connected human...all you have to do bow down and say yes.....and the PEOPLE WILL RUN TO GET IT!!
That is when it will be hardest....we will be hunted.... Either CERN or demonic rituals will open up the hell prison and unleash all the angry, malevolent spirits...cast off from God and ready, willing and able to rule over man...these ARE NOT human! They are allowed out by God to REALLY wreck havoc now...the pit is open now...those with the mark have changed their Holy Spirit...the unforgiveable sin...they cannot be redeemed any more...they , like the fallen ones, have left their first estate...there is no turning back......NOW Jesus comes back somewhere at the end of 6-7 years (the late part of the end of the tribulation) to kick demonic butt! THAT is the great and terrible day of the Lord. Those who do the devils work, those who take the mark, and the released fallen ones are now going to be wiped out of the record for good! But BEFORE Christ comes to schoolyard to kick the bully in the face, he's going to grab us weaklings who ran behind him and hid and scoot us behind him and UP...in the twinkling of an eye...we will be in awe as we see the deceased saints float up first...then we blink...and it's all over....we have new bodies....we are raised above the drama and witness HIS fight...and we will be cheering and praising and shouting for joy! THAT is how scripture gives me the play by play on the rapture. if You find anything wrong with this.....doctrine will correct me with your citations from scripture....not a commentary or something your preacher said. Ok...I'm done.

I agree with a lot of what you said,but I do have some questions based on some of your views,if you don't mind answering?
You mentioned demonic fallen angel technology so my question is when were these fallen angels created and how did they learn about their technology? I'm not trying to turn this into a gap theory thread but I believe the gap theory has the best answer to these kinds of questions because I agree that they have knowledge that we don't.

Me and you agree the Antichrist is revealed first before the rapture but I can't understand why you move it all the way until the end of the tribulation period.I do not understanding how people can interpret the bible this way especially when you seem to know about the parable of the ten virgins,this right here tells us that there will be people who think they are a Christian that get left behind.I don't see how it could make sense if it is at the end of the tribulation,even if the Antichrist must be revealed first.

Here are reasons why I believe the rapture is early in the tribulation.
Revelation 10:12 " And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,Come up hither,And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."
OK this happens at the last trump or close enough,nobody knows the exact day or hour for the rapture but we do know the Antichrist will be revealed first before it happens 2nd Thessalonians 2:1,2 and 3.

Now if we read Revelation 19:7-10 it indicates that the marriage supper of the lamb is happening while the tribulation is going on because it is mentioned after the tribulation,after the vial judgments,and before Jesus's return too.

OK but also Revelation 19:14 " And the armies that were in heaven followed him upon white horses,clothed in fine linen,white and clean."
So we should be able to see the bride had been in heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb until it is time for Jesus to return to kick butt like you said,but notice who follows Jesus on white horses,white and clean,it is those who were at the marriage supper of the Lamb, and since it mentions white and clean? We know this is referring to Christians who are returning with Jesus as he returns.

The thing I find weird is why it seems cerian Christians think they deserve to go through the tribulation and even die,if it comes to it,yet every time God poured out judgment,he removed the righteous or moved them to a safe place,so I don't understand this kind of mentality.God always considers his people first,and normal trials,tribulations,death,etc are not judgments from God.God has not appointed his people to wrath and so Christians shouldn't be thinking he does or will.

But also I think a lot of confusion comes with this idea all believers will be raptures but no matter how we interpret it we cannot ignore the parable of the ten virgins,so who are the unwise virgins? Is the question,some seem to think that they are Christians who have back-slid and are not ready,some seem to ignore the parable of the ten virgins,but I think that they are people who claim to believe in Jesus but are going by false church doctrine instead of the word of God,I think they are people who are not following true biblical doctrine that prevents them from being a real Christian and so they seem like real Christians are probably good,moral people who do not really know Jesus properly because of false teaching and they are trying to earn their salvation instead of really being a real Christian.Suddenly when they are left,they finally wake up and realize who was right and who was wrong.

In my view the 10 virgins show a parallel to the people called to the feast in heaven...to share the gift of eternal life open to all, however, only half of these virgins stayed awake, waited and kept their lamps full. I believe this was Jesus way of explaining we have a responsibility to keep our wits, prepare our souls. We Christians can nit pick at each other....the important thing is we keep our relationship with Him, doing the the best we can to keep our eyes on Him and continue loving our neighbor. The devil has a field day when we tear each other down. I say, like you, we will all know the truth when our time comes. No need to fight...one day we will find out. But, according to scripture, God does not protect His people when they become disobedient and chase after other Gods, etc. YES He loves us dearly, but He does let The SHTF when we turn away...it's His way of correcting us. We are confused and don't know everything...but it's interesting to discuss our interpretations and ideas.

Yes, Virginia, there really is a Rapture.

Hope67 wrote:In my view the 10 virgins show a parallel to the people called to the feast in heaven...to share the gift of eternal life open to all, however, only half of these virgins stayed awake, waited and kept their lamps full. I believe this was Jesus way of explaining we have a responsibility to keep our wits, prepare our souls. We Christians can nit pick at each other....the important thing is we keep our relationship with Him, doing the the best we can to keep our eyes on Him and continue loving our neighbor. The devil has a field day when we tear each other down. I say, like you, we will all know the truth when our time comes. No need to fight...one day we will find out. But, according to scripture, God does not protect His people when they become disobedient and chase after other Gods, etc. YES He loves us dearly, but He does let The SHTF when we turn away...it's His way of correcting us. We are confused and don't know everything...but it's interesting to discuss our interpretations and ideas.

The Parable of the 10 Virgins was told while the Jews were reading the Song of Solomon in the Temple during Passover week. It is a midrash-style teaching on it, specifically on Chapter 3 (the wise virgin) and 5 (the foolish one). Notice the wise bride seeks her Husband before his coming, and the foolish seeks Him after, and she is beaten by the watchmen, which hints at persecution IMO. Yet the Song goes on.