Evidence for God from Science

somebodyelse wrote:I believe speaking in tongues can be beneficial but if there's no one to interpret then it's not doing not much good. So it's really should be used more in prayer time or group prayer if there's no interpreter.


Here's a video to a medical study about speaking in tongues and what they found.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc

Yeah,I agree.I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefitting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

This weekend I had a look on the apostolic church in Slovakia.
They believe that baptism in Holy Spirit as accompanied by talking in tounges.

I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefiting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed? To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God. And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

The gift of HEALING? If the gift of healing exists as the Apostles had the ability - if that were a true modern gift, I can guarantee you that any church with as much as one person with such a gift would have lines around the block, EVERY service... but we don't see that, do we?!!! If that were truly going on ANYWHERE, there would be TV network crews clamoring to get footage. YouTube would have a proliferation of healings. Where are they?!!!

I see a big difference between claiming that God still does miracles (He most certainly DOES!) and in asserting that various individuals have the sign gifts today.

Philip wrote:

I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefiting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed?

Because they're moved by the Spirit of God.

Philip wrote:To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God.

The written word of God for which there seem to be as much subjective opinion.

Philip wrote:And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

What, the same proof that Atheists demand of Scripture which you believe is true?

Philip wrote:The gift of HEALING? If the gift of healing exists as the Apostles had the ability - if that were a true modern gift, I can guarantee you that any church with as much as one person with such a gift would have lines around the block, EVERY service... but we don't see that, do we?!!! If that were truly going on ANYWHERE, there would be TV network crews clamoring to get footage. YouTube would have a proliferation of healings. Where are they?!!!

There are people who have this, such as Benny Hinn. Charlatan right?

Philip wrote:I see a big difference between claiming that God still does miracles (He most certainly DOES!) and in asserting that various individuals have the sign gifts today.

They're promised in Scripture though. And God is personal, so why not?

PS. I'm actually in general agreement with you Philip.
Just playing around, sorry.

I see that Pentecostal churches can do much damage to a well-rounded and healthy Christian faith.
One's Christianity and their faith that ought to have based upon mind, body and soul.

A charismatic spiritualism can lead many to believe "spiritual feeling" means God is there.
So now fast forward to a part of your life where you're feeling extremely low. What then? God isn't there.
Or say, you feel in dire straits for many years. Are you now no longer Christian because the spiritual feeling or euphoria has disappeared?

When pushed to its logical conclusion, this spiritualism leaves Christians doubting their faith and worse.
If God isn't being felt that we've either backslided or God actually isn't around. Some may then embrace that God doesn't really exist, and turn to an anti-Christian thought as rational.

Now I don't write it off completely. That too is wrong or hasty to do I think.
Which is perhaps why I responded above with what could perhaps be a typical response from those advocating such.

BUT, it's all about balance. Balance your spiritual feelings with a spiritual mind and spiritual actions.

K,

You actually had me going, until you mentioned Benny Hinn.

Philip wrote:

I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefiting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed? To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God. And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

The gift of HEALING? If the gift of healing exists as the Apostles had the ability - if that were a true modern gift, I can guarantee you that any church with as much as one person with such a gift would have lines around the block, EVERY service... but we don't see that, do we?!!! If that were truly going on ANYWHERE, there would be TV network crews clamoring to get footage. YouTube would have a proliferation of healings. Where are they?!!!


I see a big difference between claiming that God still does miracles (He most certainly DOES!) and in asserting that various individuals have the sign gifts today.

It is because of a lack of belief that we don't see more healings.Even Jesus would take certain people to another place and get them to believe first,because of unbelief where the person lived.I think if you doubt the baptism in the Holy Spirit you should be baptised with faith. People have been healed today but the big healings happen more in the east than the west because we in the west live in a Christian society with unbelief.I have seen with my own eyes a demon get cast out of a woman in the name of Jesus it was real and not fake ,I remember wayching close to see if it lined up with the bible and I saw this demon tremble at the name of Jesus like the bible says ,I was standing about 10 foot away and could see the demon in her eyes and face,I watched as the piano player and choir began to play and sing " nothing but the blood of Jesus and how the demon reacted by sticking her fingers in her ears I watched as it took about 6 men to hold this frail teenage girl in place as gently as they could because of her strength,it was real and really showed off the power of Jesus and how demons do really tremble at the name of Jesus and this is healing,plus I have testimonies

Piano player and choir singing... Why was that?

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Philip wrote:

I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefiting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed? To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God. And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

The gift of HEALING? If the gift of healing exists as the Apostles had the ability - if that were a true modern gift, I can guarantee you that any church with as much as one person with such a gift would have lines around the block, EVERY service... but we don't see that, do we?!!! If that were truly going on ANYWHERE, there would be TV network crews clamoring to get footage. YouTube would have a proliferation of healings. Where are they?!!!


I see a big difference between claiming that God still does miracles (He most certainly DOES!) and in asserting that various individuals have the sign gifts today.

It is because of a lack of belief that we don't see more healings.Even Jesus would take certain people to another place and get them to believe first,because of unbelief where the person lived.I think if you doubt the baptism in the Holy Spirit you should be baptised with faith. People have been healed today but the big healings happen more in the east than the west because we in the west live in a Christian society with unbelief.I have seen with my own eyes a demon get cast out of a woman in the name of Jesus it was real and not fake ,I remember wayching close to see if it lined up with the bible and I saw this demon tremble at the name of Jesus like the bible says ,I was standing about 10 foot away and could see the demon in her eyes and face,I watched as the piano player and choir began to play and sing " nothing but the blood of Jesus and how the demon reacted by sticking her fingers in her ears I watched as it took about 6 men to hold this frail teenage girl in place as gently as they could because of her strength,it was real and really showed off the power of Jesus and how demons do really tremble at the name of Jesus and this is healing,plus I have testimonies

There's this thing that happens to some people called epilepsy...

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Philip wrote:

I actually believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is more important than the gift of tongues because if it is not interpreted nobody gets any revelation or anything or understanding and it is not benefiting anybody even the person speaking in tongues.

Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed? To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God. And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

The gift of HEALING? If the gift of healing exists as the Apostles had the ability - if that were a true modern gift, I can guarantee you that any church with as much as one person with such a gift would have lines around the block, EVERY service... but we don't see that, do we?!!! If that were truly going on ANYWHERE, there would be TV network crews clamoring to get footage. YouTube would have a proliferation of healings. Where are they?!!!


I see a big difference between claiming that God still does miracles (He most certainly DOES!) and in asserting that various individuals have the sign gifts today.

It is because of a lack of belief that we don't see more healings.Even Jesus would take certain people to another place and get them to believe first,because of unbelief where the person lived.I think if you doubt the baptism in the Holy Spirit you should be baptised with faith. People have been healed today but the big healings happen more in the east than the west because we in the west live in a Christian society with unbelief.I have seen with my own eyes a demon get cast out of a woman in the name of Jesus it was real and not fake ,I remember wayching close to see if it lined up with the bible and I saw this demon tremble at the name of Jesus like the bible says ,I was standing about 10 foot away and could see the demon in her eyes and face,I watched as the piano player and choir began to play and sing " nothing but the blood of Jesus and how the demon reacted by sticking her fingers in her ears I watched as it took about 6 men to hold this frail teenage girl in place as gently as they could because of her strength,it was real and really showed off the power of Jesus and how demons do really tremble at the name of Jesus and this is healing,plus I have testimonies

ACB,

That wouldn't have happened at a Benny Hinn crusade would it?

Philip: Scripture warns about those false teachers who infiltrate the church. Someone speaks a message in tongues - so how do YOU know if the interpreter is truly giving a message from the Lord or that the message was accurately conveyed?

K: Because they're moved by the Spirit of God.

But that's what someone CLAIMS. But unless there is a miraculous confirmation, how are those WITHOUT this supposed modern day gift to know this is of the Lord? Because the person speaking or claiming to interpret SAYS so? What if they are lying? What if the "spirit" leading them is not of the Lord? These are important questions/issues!

Philip: To me, that opens a HUGE can of worms - meaning, one has to have faith in what someone babbling what to me sounds like gibberish; one has to have faith in the interpretation of an unknown (to me) message from an unknown (to me) source. That's putting one in position of trusting a person as opposed to the clear and written word of God.

K: The written word of God for which there seem to be as much subjective opinion.

But we KNOW what the words of God say and that they are from the Lord - that's very key. This is not the case with those speaking in tongues.

Philip? And if someone asserts to have a gift of prophetic utterances, I'd want to see proof - and a track record of totally consistent PROOF that this is true.

What, the same proof that Atheists demand of Scripture which you believe is true?

No, the PROOF determination written in Scripture: In fact, Scripture reveals that this is to be a concern: "You may say to yourself, "How can we recognize a word that the LORD has not spoken?". If a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it." (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

Jeremiah 14:14: "Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds."

1 John 4:1: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Isn't it strange that between the last OT prophet and Christ, there was nearly 400 years of silence from the Lord. But many church services are filled with supposed prophetic utterances from God - just enough to get in the last song before the second service . And unless the utterances are specific and testable, where does that leave most of the people in attendance, if not to have to totally trust that what was said was from the Lord? That's an awful lot of trust to put in another human being without some absolute ability to discern the truth.

1over137 wrote:Piano player and choir singing... Why was that?

It added to the spiritual warfare as the demon did not want to come out at first.It took about 45 minutes to an hour because it kept trying to trick them,it would die down and she would be normal. It as a revival I was invited to,so I watched closely because I had never seen anything like it. I was sitting toward the back when I noticed the girl getting up and going outside and the people who brought her would go out and bring her back in,it was noticeable if you were sitting toward the back,she was real fidgety too and toward the end of the sermon they brought her forward when it started,the piano player and choir singing definitely made a difffe

I'll bet my house that it was a setup done by whoever was in charge of the "revival". It's common practice to "exorcise demons", and then people tend to be a lot more generous when they pass the plate.

Who was the person doing the revival?

And FYI, the piano and choir added to the dramatic effect, not to the fake spiritual warfare. They put on a show to fleece the flock.

I had seen epilectic seizures before from school and so I know this was different and real demon possession

RickD wrote:I'll bet my house that it was a setup done by whoever was in charge of the "revival". It's common practice to "exorcise demons", and then people tend to be a lot more generous when they pass the plate.

Who was the person doing the revival?

And FYI, the piano and choir added to the dramatic effect, not to the fake spiritual warfare. They put on a show to fleece the flock.

All I'm going to say is I saw it with my own eyes and this was not at some big mega church and it was real,I saw it standing about 10 feet away,look at 10 feet in front of you.I'm trying to remember the evangelist's name.I have never forgot thee look in her eyes and face when the demon manifested.Mark 16:17

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:I'll bet my house that it was a setup done by whoever was in charge of the "revival". It's common practice to "exorcise demons", and then people tend to be a lot more generous when they pass the plate.

Who was the person doing the revival?

And FYI, the piano and choir added to the dramatic effect, not to the fake spiritual warfare. They put on a show to fleece the flock.

All I'm going to say is I saw it with my own eyes and this was not at some big mega church and it was real,I saw it standing about 10 feet away,look at 10 feet in front of you.I'm trying to remember the evangelist's name.I have never forgot thee look in her eyes and face when the demon manifested.Mark 16:17

That chapter in Mark, was about the disciples and early Christians. They alone were given special gifts to accompany the message they were preaching. There's no basis to believe these gifts were given to all Christians in all ages.

But there's no shortage of hucksters taking advantage of misinterpreting scripture.

I'd really be interested in the name of the person doing the "revival". What city was it in, in what year?