Evidence for God from Science

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In Christ,
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I am just going to chime in here. I have read most of this post. And I must say that it makes up for good reading material. That is not what in the end I wanted to get out of this discussion.

I too am a lost Christian, so much so that I even question the whole system. I at the young age of 14 was the 1st one in my family to get saved; actually I was the only one. As time went on I moved away from the church. High school, football, girls, etc ...

Since this time I have never really gone back. My family as of recent well the last 4 years has started going back to church. They have finally been saved !!! Yay. But my problem is that I go and I feel that I do not belong. I am almost embraced when we go out to eat, we all hold hands and some one prays over the food.

I know that I should not be feeling this way, I feel guilty that I do not even want to go to church with my family. I just am not feeling god, and really do not care to. But I want to feel like I did when I was 14, I had a purpose, I had a clean good life.

I have prayed and asked god to help me. I think I need to go to a different congregation maybe, I don't know..

Well bottom line is this post seems like more bickering and seems to lost the purpose of the original subject.

LostandConfused wrote:I am just going to chime in here. I have read most of this post. And I must say that it makes up for good reading material. That is not what in the end I wanted to get out of this discussion.

I too am a lost Christian, so much so that I even question the whole system. I at the young age of 14 was the 1st one in my family to get saved; actually I was the only one. As time went on I moved away from the church. High school, football, girls, etc ...

Since this time I have never really gone back. My family as of recent well the last 4 years has started going back to church. They have finally been saved !!! Yay. But my problem is that I go and I feel that I do not belong. I am almost embraced when we go out to eat, we all hold hands and some one prays over the food.

I know that I should not be feeling this way, I feel guilty that I do not even want to go to church with my family. I just am not feeling god, and really do not care to. But I want to feel like I did when I was 14, I had a purpose, I had a clean good life.

I have prayed and asked god to help me. I think I need to go to a different congregation maybe, I don't know..

Well bottom line is this post seems like more bickering and seems to lost the purpose of the original subject.

I'm right up the same ally as you are, except my parents were saved first, then me. I too am lost and confused and I don't know what to do. I thought when God convicted me last March, I was gonna have an awesome Christian life, but it hasn't been that way. I feel too distant from God, even like he doesn't even exist distance. Yeah, I'd like to know why as we mature, faith goes down the dumps. Like the recent article on G&S.org, God pre-destines people, so if we want to be saved, God throws us aside to not be saved. Loving God, aint he?!

LostandConfused wrote:I just am not feeling god, and really do not care to. But I want to feel like I did when I was 14, I had a purpose, I had a clean good life.

Well your first sentance explains why you're not feeling God. Then your second sentance contradicts your first.

So I think for you it comes down to a choice. Do you want to accept a purpose (that being to serve the Lord) or do you not want to feel God? Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and this will be added unto you. That is God's promise, so the key is whether or not you will make a decision to seek God. And really I think seeking means much more than asking that God take over - it's about serving Him with your entire life.

so the key is whether or not you will make a decision to seek God. And really I think seeking means much more than asking that God take over - it's about serving Him with your entire life.

Ok agreed guess you just cant ask God to take over. But let me ask you this then. How is one who is lost supposed to serve when you do not feel it. I am lacking in faith and all I am asking is how does one get that back.

If I lack faith would I even bother serving ?

with me, getting saved WAS an overnight thing. i began to change immediately. even recently, when i began backsliding, i still felt God and he in no way allowed me to reach a level even close to what i'd been before Him.

i understand what you guys are saying. before i got saved i believed in God. i went to church, but i was really not "getting it."

i suppose you have to question, if you're feeling this way, were you ever really saved? and i hate it when people say they "got saved" as a child (fourteen is a child)...children have no way of understanding God and salvation and servitude. they just do as they are told and follow the crowd. children are "automatically" saved. for an adult, salvation is a totally different concept. (i'm sure i'll get yelled at for saying that)

so, have you made a committment to God as an adult?

if not, why not? if you don't want to, decide why you don't.

if you want to, why do you want to? figure that out and then start by learning more about God. how can you want to be part of something you don't understand?

i didn't start with the bible. it's actually pretty boring if you aren't saved. figure out what you want to know about God and go pick up a book at any christian bookstore which might answer these questions.

before i got saved, i used to pray to God constantly...asking for help/salvation/intervention. He never seemed to answer me. some prayers he answered in His own time, some prayers He answered in His own ways; some prayers just weren't things i should have been asking for.

i think before asking Him for anything, you should be requesting Him to enter your life and take over. you should voice your sincerety and your desire to be a part of Him and your repentance for the time you have not been with Him.

finally, before you do even this...are you sincere?

Well I am not sure if I agree with everything that you say. I know that even though I was at the age of 14, at the time I mean what I said when I took Jesus as my personal lord and savior. This was never a doubt.

I was not told to go to church; I even went against my family's choice of religion to attend. Although I hate to say this I feel like I was tricked into going in the 1st place but that is neither here nor there. I went to a karate demonstration and as it turned out it was a demo but it was being run by a new church that was opening up in the area.

Being part of the crowd was the opposite of what I was doing. No one in my school was openly born again. I think I was the only one that would prey in the cafeteria, trust me this defiantly went against the crowd. Witnessed to the kids in my neighborhood, trust me if you saw my neighborhood you would think that this was a really bad idea.

" so, have you made a commitment to God as an adult? "

Now this is a good question. I think that making a commitment again might be what I need to do. This might break the waiting for a feeling to get to living a Christian life. Start living a Christian life and then get the feeling... Not sure if I worded that right.

I hate recommending Christian best sellers. Make it seem like it's better than the bible in the area of instruction.

But I must really say that the "Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren is a great book. It helps organises the biblical teachings in a way that's cut right deep into the core & easy to understand.
I'm still at Chp 25 but to me, the crux lies in the 1st 14 chapters.

Back to the original post about unanswered prayer.
I believe that there's a catch when it comes to prayer.

Can't quote the verses, but it's to the effect of prayers will be answered when we
1) Pray in the will of the Father
2) We delight in Him
3) We're obedient to Him

In another words, as we grow in Christian maturity, the Father's will become our will...so naturally God will answer yes to our prayers.
Prayers that are self-seeking or defeating....which are asked when we do not delight in Him, or seek His will will naturally not be answered.

And I think we should put an end to the cliche of: "God always answer prayers...as sometimes the answer is No." Let's us stop defending God. God will not answer our prayers (not that He is ignoring us) when it is not ask in His will. (I don't know about God's response on prayers that are neither for bad nor good purpose tho...if there's really such kind of prayer)
Thus it all goes back to our purpose in Life (read the book) which is for God & God alone. It's not about me.
This is really to your face kinda statement & I feel that until we realise/internalise this, we'll always have this once a while slip, into depression & uncertainty.

Okay, I am having "thoughts" again. More specifically, I am having thoughts that there really is no God, that it really is all wishful thinking and psychological mind games. I have layed low on the article reading as suggested by my psychiatrist, but now I keep having these overwhelming doubts. Like I am a member of this website and there is a discussion going on about the Bible being written by people to control the people meaning none of it wasn't inspired by God. As science keeps finding new things to disprove the basics of religion like creation and so forth, my mind is turning for the worse. I have started reading the Bible again, but I don't know what to make of it. My focus is Christianity, but I am having SEVERE thoughts about religion being false. Like all the miracles we see today is actually dirived from within us. I was watching a show today and the women who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul mentioned that she had people healed of incurrable diseases from the power within ones self and it wasn't prayer or God that did it. I'm confused. I would appreciate some advice. Also I would like to mention that I listen to the hour sermons our local church pastor teaches every Sunday and Wednesday in substitute of going to church. Please help me if at all possible.

You're really going to have to reach deep within yourself and... pull an organ out...?

Ok seriously, you must review your own thoughts. They don't stand up to logic. Then I suggest bringing a notepad with you on your day and recording all the events that happened to you. Everything that is significant that is, finding money on the floor, meeting someone you haven't seen in a while, something you were thinking about doing that happened without you initiating it, good luck, bad luck all that.

After writing in an entry, try to explain it right there on the spot. You just missed your teacher who was in his classroom and you have to hand in a report. You walk away but you bump into him on the way because he was at the bathroom. How lucky is that?

Every day do this. Every day pray to God. Tell Him that His will is absolute and that you will do whatever he needs you to do. Every day read all the entries you have written. Every day talk to another Christian. Every day pick up the Bible and read it, when you don't understand something, ask someone who does. You might even want to talk to your pastor to get help every day. Do this for a week.

Then stop. Ask God to test you, to put you through bad times, to make everything bad happen to you. Every night, demand of Him that your life be miserable. Every night read the Bible but don't try to understand it. Just let it soak into your mind. Every day do the same thing, write about things that happened to you and try to explain them. Then after a week or so compare the two weeks.

Believe me, the same exact thing happened to me, I used my mind instead of a notebook because my problems weren't nearly as severe as yours, but I'm sure once you see how your life is effected by your prayer you will see a pattern. A pattern that cannot be explained by 'inner strength' or anything like that.

If you really want to take things to an extreme, every friday or a weekend night, stay up and read the Bible and pray for several hours. I myself haven't done this (but plan to start this friday), but when you cut yourself off from everything but God the connection between you and Him grows stronger.

Also, I'd like to know what you pray about to God, it'd be nice to know what exactly you want from Him to figure out if you're not asking for enough!

I think I've found out my spiritual gift (hopefully one of many, though one's still good enough for me). As I read some of these things, I think mine is faith. There's tongues and knowledge and wisdom, and I think that it's obvious at this point I've got faith, because though I have some of these problems...I don't ever feel as if God really doesn't exist. Even when I feel as if nobody is listening.

Oh, yeah, PS, I didn't read all of Dan's stuff, I kinda went ADD, but read the Bible. How else do you think God's gonna respond to you? A loud booming voice would be nice I admit.

I was curious and picked up Penn & Teller's [nonsense] series on DVD and I watched the episode on the Bible, now mind you, they are atheists, maybe agnostics, but most likely athiests. They showed how the Bible is false, how there is no outside the Bible evidence for a Moses, how scripture contradicts each other, how scripture says if you don't do this one thing like keep the sabbath, you should die, how Noah's Ark couldn't have possibly carried those billions of animals, and so on and so on. The show was recorded in 2004, recent, so is there any secular evidence to disprove these claims?

P.S. Penn & Teller are magicians so I think naturally they don't beleive in that stuff.

Reading over your messages I can't help think of the passages in Scripture which admonish Christians to test everything in order to sort out what is good (i.e., 1 Thessalonians 5:21). If time was taken to test the words of the Christian skeptics you seem so troubled by, then I have a feeling you wouldn't so "shattered" at every word by them.

Anyway, you can continue down the path of just listening to one side, or you can begin examining the truthfulness of claims on both sides. I have a feeling the decision has really already been made within you whether you're conscious of it or not, and it is saddening to see.

Kurieuo

Kurieuo wrote:Reading over your messages I can't help think of the passages in Scripture which admonish Christians to test everything in order to sort out what is good (i.e., 1 Thessalonians 5:21). If time was taken to test the words of the Christian skeptics you seem so troubled by, then I have a feeling you wouldn't so "shattered" at every word by them.

Anyway, you can continue down the path of just listening to one side, or you can begin examining the truthfulness of claims on both sides. I have a feeling the decision has really already been made within you whether you're conscious of it or not, and it is saddening to see.

Kurieuo

Yes, but the Bible also states not to test the Lord, so there is a contradiction there. Test all things - Don't test the Lord.