Philip wrote:Audie: Calling "fairy tale" is risky biz for those coming from the talking snake book as their
Fountain of Truth.
Just sayin'!
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And if I did not believe in God, if I believed everything has always been as perfectly explainable and understandable - to where certain things were not only improbable, but also impossible, I would likely be just as cynical and skeptical. But as we have a universe where none existed, where there are considerable evidences that Jesus did what Scripture says He did, then I can't just dismiss anything in Scripture. Do I understand it perfectly? Of course not. But I believe these things happened. And I know that no fiction writers could create the wisdom of Jesus from thin air.
I know that you don't just make up a God that shows His followers and favored nation to be such screw-ups, that this heroic God would be beaten and humiliated, humbled Himself, allowed treacherous men to beat him severely and then put Him through a most agonizing death, spit upon Him, punch Him, etc. And I know that all those scared disciples, who were in hiding immediately after the Crucifixion, suddenly, to a man, became bold, passionate and fearless spreaders of the Gospel - WHY???!!! Why would they risk the very same punishment if they knew Jesus to be a deluded fraud whom got himself pointlessly killed - a madman who thought He was God???!!! Nothing makes sense of this remarkable transformation of the disciples unless they had seen the risen Christ. NOTHING explains how fiercely monotheistic Jews - whom had been fully committed to the teaching of the Jewish authorities, suddenly believed this crucified Rabbi was actually God in the flesh, and that they had SEEN Him, as thousands became Christians in a very narrow window - none of that makes sense UNLESS, they saw the Risen Christ! The Apostle Paul, formerly Saul, an up and coming "rock star," zealous for Judaism and the most intense and relentless persecutor of Christians. One of the most intellectual and learned men of His day - he detested Christians. His fame and success had everything to do with being a zealous Jew and committed persecutor of Christians. Why did He JOIN his hated opponents? What did he have to gain? He traded prestige, fame and professional respect for being despised, beaten, jailed, always at risk of death, and he changed literally overnight, because something happened to him out on that road to Damascus - which he said was an encounter with the risen Christ. What else explains this incredible transformation - of the disciples and Paul?
Backing up a little bit.. you said
" it could have not have been an unguided one that only occurred given enough time and chance"
Which is most certainly an assertion of facts not in evidence. No data is presented to disprove the theory that it is the product of just that; no reason is given besides the untenable assertion that god leaves nothing to chance. Even should there be an omnipotent God, there is still "chance", it does not cease to exist.
I do wish to apologize a bit. The 'talking snake book" thing is a bit mean spirited of me. You may not have
been referring to evolution theory as a "fairy tale". If you were, then apology is cancelled.
Some things in the bible are fairy tales, if taken literally.
But a different one is offered, to the extent that I may have hit a nerve, seemingly challenging your faith.
It was not my intent.
if I did not believe in God, if I believed everything has always been as perfectly explainable and understandable - to where certain things were not only improbable, but also impossible
"All things are possible in God". they say.
I cant imagine any educated person with the belief that 'everything has always been perfectly explainable etc."
All that said, my comment was not in any way intended to trample your faith, nor for that matter is, in my opinion, is there anything in science to challenge faith in God, the divinity of Jesus, any of that.
There are things in the bible that perhaps ought not be there. There certainly are readings of the book that are bonkers.
If you wish to feel that all happens because of God, and all is to a plan, that is certainly your deal, and
there is no reason for me to contest that.
Fair game tho, is forum statements about science that cannot be backed with any sort of data.