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Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:45 am
by Philip
Audie: You apparently are ok with making up something for me to think and stating various other facts not in evidence.
So you believe there is at least a chance that there is a God, that He is the God of the Bible? You believe there is at least a chance that you are currently in danger of Hell?
Because you have prolifically said you think no God is necessary for what exists. So, given the extraordinary improbabilities, statistically, of so many things and necessary conditions needed for life to be sustained, coming into existence uncaused and without intelligence - well, you clearly believe that not only are such extreme odds are possible, but that they occurred and without an eternal and all powerful intelligence behind them. Because that much you've prolifically asserted. So, seeing you as not being suicidal, I am speculating that you see NO chance of your being wrong about God and hell. Or am I wrong about that - that you at least see some probability of it?
Which part do I have wrong, or have speculated incorrectly?
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:46 am
by crochet1949
Audie wrote:crochet1949 wrote:So you're okay with taking a chance that your eternal life will consist of ending up in Hell.
Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right? This is what they say will become of you for exposing your hair in public.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... urning.jpg
Ouch! haning from hair in eternal fire.
God's Word tells me that God Almighty is the One True God and we are to worship no one else. That eliminates Islam / Muslims from being right. There can be only one True God.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:04 am
by crochet1949
crochet1949 wrote:Audie wrote:crochet1949 wrote:So you're okay with taking a chance that your eternal life will consist of ending up in Hell.
Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right? This is what they say will become of you for exposing your hair in public.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... urning.jpg
Ouch! haning from hair in eternal fire.
God's Word tells me that God Almighty is the One True God and we are to worship no one else. That eliminates Islam / Muslims from being right. There can be only one True God.
Your link -- obviously Not Scriptural. No one is going to hang by their hair in hell because our hair is exposed in public.
Because Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "For by grace you are saved through faith, not of works -- and this, not of yourselves -- it is a gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast."
So -- exposing one's hair in public or having it covered -- would be a 'good/bad work' on our part -- will not have any effect on our salvation. We can't do Anything to help our salvation be more complete -- Jesus Christ has Already done everything necessary for every person to enter heaven and Stay there.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:57 pm
by Philip
Audie: Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right?
Every possibility references a chance. But possibilities also have probabilities. And many possibilities warrant far less probability that they are true - particularly if they are logically and highly problematic, inconsistent, or prolifically contradictory in what they assert as to some truth. As for religions - MANY are filled with truths - albeit mixed in with untruths - some of which are far more dangerous than others. The truly THINKING Christian exhaustively looks at various worldviews and probabilities. They don't just grab onto whatever just happens by. And they also continuously sift and test the truths of Scripture, and examine themselves, their motivations, their hearts. Skepticism is GOOD, whenever and wherever it is willing to listen to truth, and recognizes it when found.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:53 pm
by Kenny
crochet1949 wrote:Audie wrote:crochet1949 wrote:So you're okay with taking a chance that your eternal life will consist of ending up in Hell.
Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right? This is what they say will become of you for exposing your hair in public.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... urning.jpg
Ouch! haning from hair in eternal fire.
God's Word tells me that God Almighty is the One True God and we are to worship no one else. That eliminates Islam / Muslims from being right. There can be only one True God.
The Koran says Allah is the one true God and we are to worship no one else. that eliminates God Almighty. I guess it all depends on who you wanna listen to huh?
Ken
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:56 am
by Audie
Philip wrote:Audie: Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right?
My hair is going to stay long and loose, and they can go eat dirt with their stupid religion.
Every possibility references a chance. But possibilities also have probabilities. And many possibilities warrant far less probability that they are true - particularly if they are logically and highly problematic, inconsistent, or prolifically contradictory in what they assert as to some truth.
"some things are more likely than others"
As for religions - MANY are filled with truths - albeit mixed in with untruths - some of which are far more dangerous than others. The truly THINKING Christian exhaustively looks at various worldviews and probabilities. They don't just grab onto whatever just happens by. And they also continuously sift and test the truths of Scripture, and examine themselves, their motivations, their hearts. Skepticism is GOOD, whenever and wherever it is willing to listen to truth, and recognizes it when found
I'd take it as being that every religion is a mix of things that have some
meaning, and utter nonsense.
Their believers all think they have the right one.
From the outside, Christianity does not look so special as it does to those inside.
.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:13 am
by Kurieuo
Their believers all think they have the right one.
What do you mean by "right one"?
Take that Muhammad says, according to the Quran, that he doesn't even know how God will judge him. The most assurance you have is a God is gracious offer. So then, if you mean the right way to get to heaven, Islam doesn't necessarily provide a set formula, though many believe dying in Jihad will get you a pass into paradise.
Of course, if you mean have the right one as in "truth", well then whatever one believe is no exception. Just because you might be irreligious and not take a position on God, you could nonetheless be wrong in your disbelief.
Truth kind of works that way, many will always be wrong, but such doesn't mean one isn't right. It's really a non-argument, just because many differences of opinion exist doesn't mean none are right or each are equal.
Interesting that Christ claimed to be the Truth and many believed him, including the Apostles who died for and in their belief. Either he was a whacked out, high at the time on something, or telling a seemingly foolish truth.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:03 am
by Philip
K: Interesting that Christ claimed to be the Truth and many believed him, including the Apostles who died for and in their belief. Either he was a whacked out, high at the time on something, or telling a seemingly foolish truth.
And so Jesus followers were just as equally "whacked out" - that or He was the real deal! Because they KNEW the truth of the matter, weren't guessing. Read their writings - do they sound like delusional types that would have made up all manner of nonsense, risked being brutally killed like Jesus? Greatly fearful right after the crucifixion, incredibly bold IMMEDIATELY afterward! The constantly appeal to reason and facts about Christ - amongst people who knew those facts, had lived in the region, many having seen Jesus do miracles, and many having seen him alive post the Crucifixion. Look at Jesus brilliant exposure of the religions authorities - people only playing religious games. Clearly His intellect and brilliance, ability to strike to the heart of a matter with just one question, His constant challenging of evil and evil doers - these are not the markers of a madman who pointlessly got Himself killed, thought He was GOD! And neither are the exceptionally sober-minded Apostles. And note that they don't typically appeal to mystery and mysticism, or miracle-based phenomena, but to reason and facts. These are not the words of deluded followers of a madman.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:39 am
by crochet1949
Kenny wrote:crochet1949 wrote:Audie wrote:crochet1949 wrote:So you're okay with taking a chance that your eternal life will consist of ending up in Hell.
Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right? This is what they say will become of you for exposing your hair in public.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... urning.jpg
Ouch! haning from hair in eternal fire.
God's Word tells me that God Almighty is the One True God and we are to worship no one else. That eliminates Islam / Muslims from being right. There can be only one True God.
The Koran says Allah is the one true God and we are to worship no one else. that eliminates God Almighty. I guess it all depends on who you wanna listen to huh?
Ken
In this country we Do have the freedom to listen to whomever we want to listen to -- at least pretty much so. Is it Possible that various belief systems come to this country Because of our freedom OF religion. And they Do have the opportunity to share their belief system with anyone who wants to listen.
A person can Also take a look at the over-all affect that Islam has on people. Women's freedom is greatly restricted. Family is Not to connect with anyone outside their own belief system on threat of death. Father's Do have the right to kill family members who even Try to leave the faith.
And there is something about 'kill the infidels' -- 'they' either convert or die. That does Not sound much like John 3:16 or "We love Him because He first loved us and gave Himself for us" That's from memory and paraphrased a bit.
And God's Word says that God Wants to have a close relationship with us -- Philippians -- Bring all our problems concerns to Him because He cares for us.
Does the Koran talk about Mohammad as a prophet who died for his people and then rose again after three days.
Just saying -- having had conversations about Islam / Quran in the past -- I'll choose God's Word / Christianity.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:46 am
by Kenny
crochet1949 wrote:Kenny wrote:crochet1949 wrote:Audie wrote:crochet1949 wrote:So you're okay with taking a chance that your eternal life will consist of ending up in Hell.
Are you ok taking a chance that the moslems are right? This is what they say will become of you for exposing your hair in public.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... urning.jpg
Ouch! haning from hair in eternal fire.
God's Word tells me that God Almighty is the One True God and we are to worship no one else. That eliminates Islam / Muslims from being right. There can be only one True God.
The Koran says Allah is the one true God and we are to worship no one else. that eliminates God Almighty. I guess it all depends on who you wanna listen to huh?
Ken
In this country we Do have the freedom to listen to whomever we want to listen to -- at least pretty much so. Is it Possible that various belief systems come to this country Because of our freedom OF religion. And they Do have the opportunity to share their belief system with anyone who wants to listen.
A person can Also take a look at the over-all affect that Islam has on people. Women's freedom is greatly restricted. Family is Not to connect with anyone outside their own belief system on threat of death. Father's Do have the right to kill family members who even Try to leave the faith.
And there is something about 'kill the infidels' -- 'they' either convert or die. That does Not sound much like John 3:16 or "We love Him because He first loved us and gave Himself for us" That's from memory and paraphrased a bit.
And God's Word says that God Wants to have a close relationship with us -- Philippians -- Bring all our problems concerns to Him because He cares for us.
Does the Koran talk about Mohammad as a prophet who died for his people and then rose again after three days.
Just saying -- having had conversations about Islam / Quran in the past -- I'll choose God's Word / Christianity.
Totally irrelevant. You are making a different point than I responded to. You said because the Bible says it, it must be true. My point was one could just as easily point to another Holy Text; Koran, Vedas, etc. etc. and claim that because this book says it, it must be true. That is the only point I was responding to, I was not in any way trying to compare Islam, or any other religion to yours.
Ken
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:38 am
by crochet1949
Ken -- The only text you mentioned was the Koran saying that Allah was the One true God and to worship him which eliminates God Almighty as the One True God. And that it all depends on who a person chooses to listen to.
That's the reason I proceeded as I did.
God's Word DOES say in John 14:6 " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ is saying that.
And a person can Also look at the lives of those who follow a given religious book and observe them. Do they seem to have a something that I Like and would Like for myself?
Because a religion is supposed to make a difference in a person's life / their religious book Should be important to follow.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:04 am
by Audie
crochet1949 wrote:Ken -- The only text you mentioned was the Koran saying that Allah was the One true God and to worship him which eliminates God Almighty as the One True God. And that it all depends on who a person chooses to listen to.
That's the reason I proceeded as I did.
God's Word DOES say in John 14:6 " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ is saying that.
And a person can Also look at the lives of those who follow a given religious book and observe them. Do they seem to have a something that I Like and would Like for myself?
Because a religion is supposed to make a difference in a person's life / their religious book Should be important to follow.
If you look at the stats, the Book of Mormon is the one to follow.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 am
by Philip
If you look at the stats, the Book of Mormon is the one to follow.
WHAT stats? Besides that, I'm impressed with a book that some guy goes off in a corner, translates some supposed mysterious writings, in which not ONE place referenced in it can be identified or has been found, in which God used to be a man on another planet - and somehow attained Godhood (wow!), and his children were Jesus and Satan. And that's just for starters!
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:19 am
by crochet1949
Philip wrote:If you look at the stats, the Book of Mormon is the one to follow.
WHAT stats? Besides that, I'm impressed with a book that some guy goes off in a corner, translates some supposed mysterious writings, in which not ONE place referenced in it can be identified or has been found, in which God used to be a man on another planet - and somehow attained Godhood (wow!), and his children were Jesus and Satan. And that's just for starters!
Very good points. A bit of craziness.
Re: Ignorance of Christianity
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:36 am
by Kenny
Philip wrote:If you look at the stats, the Book of Mormon is the one to follow.
WHAT stats? Besides that, I'm impressed with a book that some guy goes off in a corner, translates some supposed mysterious writings, in which not ONE place referenced in it can be identified or has been found, in which God used to be a man on another planet - and somehow attained Godhood (wow!), and his children were Jesus and Satan. And that's just for starters!
All theistic beliefs sound crazy in the eyes of the unbeliever; even yours.
Ken
