Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:12 am**

Kurieuo demon possession is not just illnesses. In the bible some illnesses were healed by demon being cast out, but not all of them. Jesus cast a 1000 of so demon out of one man. He wasn't sick. there was another passage that said there were two men but I'm not sure it was the same event. Still 1000 or so demon in one or two is a lot. then the disciples or Paul cast a demon out of a girl that wasn't sick at all she was a fortune teller or some kind of witch or something. So demon possession is not just illnesses.

crochet1949 demons being cast out has nothing to do with salvation. Sinners can have demons cast out of them as well and that dose not mean they were saved. they still have to accept Jesus as there savior.

RickD I agree with you casting out demons is not a gift of the spirit. Any Christian can do that. Jesus said that some come out only by prayer and fasting He did not call it a gift that only a few have.

abelcainsbrother I agree with you or anyone on anything said that I fill is biblical. There are some here if they disagree with someone on one issue then they will not agree with them on any thing at all. I do not do that but I see Christians as brothers and sisters in the LORD and even though I do not agree with every thing others may say they are not my enemy and I can agree with them on some things.

Philip casting out demons is not a gift of the spirit healing is and it stile is at work to day. The bible dose not say that you control any of the gifts and if you have a gift you may not always have that gift. Even if the videos were true or not it proves that what you are saying about people flocking to people with this gift is not true. People do not flock to people with the gift of healing because they do not believe it is true not because it is not true.

According to Jesus the gifts of the spirit are still for us to day. There is no way to say they are not for us unless you call Jesus a lier. He said these thing will follow them that believe. So if we can sill believe to day then the gift can still be used to day.

like I said earlier experience dose not dictate truth but truth dictates experience.

People may thing that since truth dictates experience then in my experience or any experience of others that I have seen, says that the truth is not real truth.

That is bad logic because again you are using experience to dictate truth and experience dose not dictate truth. All experience can do is shed light on your belief or unbelief. Your experience showing no healing is not proof of no healing or proof of no present gift of healing but it is evidence of the lack of belief.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:30 am**

To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:43 am**

People do not flock to people with the gift of healing because they do not believe it is true not because it is not true.

You're kidding me, right???!!! Have you EVER seen a man born blind instantly given sight? One who NEVER walked, run down the street after being healed? One dead, summoned back to life? IF such instant healings were occurring today, 1) we'd also see things like that. 2) If things like that were happening, then NO one would be under an illusion, certainly not after sincerely investigating and shown powerful evidences, that it did not happen. In fact, the spectacular level of the kinds of miracles that Jesus and the Apostles did were done on a level so NO ONE seeing them, or investigating the evidences of their before-and-after state, would be able to easily dismiss it actually happened. Even UNBELIEVERS saw those miracles, believed they happened, but would not assign them to God. They even accused Jesus of being demonically powered. If Jesus and the Apostles had merely healed people without powerful proof of such - and from many (and many not even believers), then it would have been easy to assert those supposedly healed had merely CLAIMED such. So the actual miracles of the NT left no doubt, to one who either saw them, or met those that saw them, or that was able to encounter one who had received such.

And do you not think anyone so spectacularly healed today wouldn't want everyone to know what God had done for them, through some healer? But we don't see any of this stuff, DO we???!!! And as the purpose of such healings should likely also serve (as they do in the NT) as witness to the reality and power of God to UNBELIEVERS, why would such things claimed not be widely known and videoed???!!! From just believers alone, if such claims of those healing today, with the supposed gift of doing so, traffic would shut down the interstates all around such churches, every time the healer would be present. Not happening. Wonder why?

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:56 am**

Audie wrote:To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

It's kind of scary to some of us to hear you comment that way. BECAUSE demon possession Is real --miracles Do happen, Genesis creation Did happen just as God said it did and the flood DID happen.
God is Trying to get our attention -- apparently you are Not listening.

There is the other thread about Christianity -- are people being reached and accepting? You have been reached out To and are Rejecting. At least at This time in your life. Hopefully you will live Long enough to Accept.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:01 am**

crochet1949 wrote:
Audie wrote:To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

It's kind of scary to some of us to hear you comment that way. BECAUSE demon possession Is real --miracles Do happen, Genesis creation Did happen just as God said it did and the flood DID happen.
God is Trying to get our attention -- apparently you are Not listening.

There is the other thread about Christianity -- are people being reached and accepting? You have been reached out To and are Rejecting. At least at This time in your life. Hopefully you will live Long enough to Accept.

The thread I'm referring to is "Ignorance of Christianity" -- you are no longer Ignorant Of.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:04 am**

Philip I do not see you or anyone else run down to were the videos came from to see if it is real. You and everyone else that do not believe it is real with out any evidence that it is not real just assume it is not real because y'all do not believe. That is the case every where. It is not only true in your life but in most peoples lives. so there would be no rush. Know mater what evidence people would believe it was fake. You have no real evidence that it isn't true and you do not believe so why would anyone else be any different then you?

Can we still believe in Jesus today, if so then the gifts are stile far us today or Jesus is a lier.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:18 am**

Know mater what evidence people would believe it was fake. You have no real evidence that it isn't true and you do not believe so why would anyone else be any different then you?

What I'm seeing is NO evidence of such put forth! I asked you direct questions about healings JUST LIKE incredible ones - and unmistakable - that made the blind see, the lame run, even raising the dead. Have YOU ever seen any of these? Because if you have not, you have not seen what those in the NT saw per the Apostles or Jesus. And why is no evidence of these put forth? Because medical records, exams, x-rays - they do not lie, and would be easy to examine. And why would all those who know about such not want God's miraculous deeds amongst them known by ALL???!!! Most of the Church doubts such things - why wouldn't knowledgeable Christians witnessing such want it documented for the greater Church's enlightenment? And if anyone had such a GIFT - we should not be speaking of only one or two such healings. And if MANY (as is commonly asserted) had such gifts - spread over the church, it would be common knowledge! Period! On top of all of that, you assert that in churches where this is NOT happening, that they are somehow not teaching God's Word or less spiritual - both claims that take in vast millions of Christians in God-honoring churches - which is clearly false!

Healings/miracles done by Jesus and the Apostles left none who saw them in doubt. Document that a man was blind, video his sight being restored, have him examined by doctors to prove it. Done deal! And, again, have you EVER seen one of these SPECIFIC things I asked about???!!!

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:38 am**

I take my truth from the bible not from my experiences. Experience can not dictate truth. Jesus said that people who believe in him would do theses things so unless we can not believe in him, we must believe they are far us to day.

You are trying to let experience dictate truth but it dose not dictate truth. All experience can show is your belief. So if in your experience there is no such healing or other gifts then that is not evidence that theses things do not happen but it is evidence that you lack real belief.

We know that people in Jesus time died of different sickness He didn't heal everyone on earth or even everyone in Israel so why is this maybe because they were sitting around waiting to see if it was all real and not fake. the same as you. There experience did not dictate truth and neither dose yours.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:39 am**

Philip wrote:
Know mater what evidence people would believe it was fake. You have no real evidence that it isn't true and you do not believe so why would anyone else be any different then you?
What I'm seeing is NO evidence of such put forth! I asked you direct questions about healings JUST LIKE incredible ones - and unmistakable - that made the blind see, the lame run, even raising the dead. Have YOU ever seen any of these? Because if you have not, you have not seen what those in the NT saw per the Apostles or Jesus. And why is no evidence of these put forth? Because medical records, exams, x-rays - they do not lie, and would be easy to examine. And why would all those who know about such not want God's miraculous deeds amongst them known by ALL???!!! Most of the Church doubts such things - why wouldn't knowledgeable Christians witnessing such want it documented for the greater Church's enlightenment? And if anyone had such a GIFT - we should not be speaking of only one or two such healings. And if MANY (as is commonly asserted) had such gifts - spread over the church, it would be common knowledge! Period! On top of all of that, you assert that in churches where this is NOT happening, that they are somehow not teaching God's Word or less spiritual - both claims that take in vast millions of Christians in God-honoring churches - which is clearly false!

Healings/miracles done by Jesus and the Apostles left none who saw them in doubt. Document that a man was blind, video his sight being restored, have him examined by doctors to prove it. Done deal! And, again, have you EVER seen one of these SPECIFIC things I asked about???!!!

Philip
I've known for Fact a situation with my brother-in-law from many years ago. He was bleeding internally and it couldn't be stopped by the surgeon. He was opened up and they were basically just watching when the bleeding gradually stopped. There was no reason it Should have , but it Did. Those Around him knew about it.
And, on FB there have been videos of a lady rescued from her sinking car. All four of her car windows were Up -- she Should have drowned -- but someone was feeling around under the water and felt an arm. The windows were still Up when the car was pulled out of the water. HOW did she get Out?! Even the people who rescued her said that something strange happened under the water.
And there have been other medical situations -- a brain surgery that Was about to be done -- one last look at the brain scan But there was No sign of the tumor that HAD BEEN THERE. A miracle , Yes.

A Lot of churches these days do not teach much Bible. And there is such skepticism about Anything religious -- people Don't appreciate being ridiculed regarding what happened in their personal lives. Sharing their salvation experience can be hard enough. It Should be seen as the Best experience / Decision of their life Because it IS.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:53 am**

jpbg33 wrote:Philip I do not see you or anyone else run down to were the videos came from to see if it is real. You and everyone else that do not believe it is real with out any evidence that it is not real just assume it is not real because y'all do not believe. That is the case every where. It is not only true in your life but in most peoples lives. so there would be no rush. Know mater what evidence people would believe it was fake. You have no real evidence that it isn't true and you do not believe so why would anyone else be any different then you?

Can we still believe in Jesus today, if so then the gifts are stile far us today or Jesus is a lier.

At the risk of sounding like a skeptic -- people Have been known to stage videos.

There is So much being done in the world today to discredit the Bible. The demon possession 'thing'. Miraculous healings. Healings DO happen -- yes. Demon possession -- it IS real -- a person needs to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior in order to get the evil spirit Out because the Holy Spirit comes to indwell them. A person Can be Oppressed but not Possessed. Scripture Does tell us to Stay Away from the occult / fortune tellers / mediums. Dangerous.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:13 pm**

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:53 pm**

crochet1949 I didn't watch the video I do not know any thing about the video. I only have internet at work so I can't set around watching videos. So yes the video my be false I do not know, but weather it is false or not dose not matter the point is that people will not necessarily flock to where theses things have happened because people think they are fake.

Just like everyone Philip and others are setting around saying these thing are not true with out proof that they are not. There is no way to prove these things happen because know mater what all most any thing can be faked, but just because something can be faked doesn't mean these things are not real.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:48 pm**

I didn't watch the video , either. Maybe More of the point Is that miracles are Not a performance to be watched. God performs miracles in people's lives on an individual basis as He sees fit. To bring glory to Him Through His healing the person.

You're right -- just because groups Fake healings, doesn't make healings' fake -- the Fake one's make skeptics out of the rest of us. Accept that which God Does provide for us.

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:11 pm**

jpbg33 wrote:
Just like everyone Philip and others are setting around saying these thing are not true with out proof that they are not.
This is of course so; likewise you cannot prove I do not have a secret alien spaceport in my kitchen. You know? Its just not worth saying " cant prove its not so".
There is no way to prove these things happen
But of course there is. Really, you cant think of how to prove it?
Think how they proved penicillin works. Or any other medicine.

Try this. Find someone needin' a miracle. Let doctors examine him.

Then let the doctors see your patient after the miracle.

In Missouri, they say "Show me". So do the doctors, and the other sensible people among us.

because know mater what all most any thing can be faked
That is not the reason it cant be proved, esp as it could be, if, you know, it were real.

, but just because something can be faked doesn't mean these things are not real
Another pointless thing to say, basically a strawman; nobody is arguing that.

(you cant fake growing back a leg; why dont them miracles ever grow a leg back? Or do miracles only work on things that can be faked??)

Miracle cures might be real. Keep in mind that through time and all around the world, down to the last jungle witch doctor, people have put forward these claims.

But nobody ever seems to be able to demonstrate it. What possible lesson might that suggest?

Posted: **Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:18 pm**

crochet1949 wrote: There is So much being done in the world today to discredit the Bible. .

Do you think that is why those things like phony miracle cures are being done?

I can think of much more obvious and financially sound reasons.

Ever think that anything you take part in might also bring discredit?

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