Evidence for God from Science

tetelesti wrote:

RickD wrote:Welcome back Dazed...er, I mean tetelesti!
I was just looking through one of your old threads:http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =7&t=34104
That's one of my all-time favorite threads here.

This reminds me of how some YEC's never really bother to fully investigate an old earth position.
They make assumptions based on their own prejudices, which leads to disinformation.
Glad to be back on the boards...

Glad to have you back dazed.. I still like your photo.. GO ISRAEL!! The TRUE NFL...

Gman wrote:
Glad to have you back dazed.. I still like your photo.. GO ISRAEL!! The TRUE NFL...

Thanks Gman, glad to be back!

Hello

I am very shy about posting here. I am Caz, I live in Perth Australia. I found this forum because I was googling for science and Christian reconciliation. I enjoyed the many pages I read that gave a considerate discussion about how the seemingly opposed camps might be brought together.

But why was I searching? I was raised with no faith, my parents were hippies of the 60s era who rejected their Christian upbringings before I was born. I was left to "decide for myself" and so I decided that there could be no God in a world that seemed so cruel and chaotic (Vietnam war, Irish troubles, Biafra, Cambodia and so many other famines and wars that broke my heart to see on television as a child and young adult). I had nobody to give me the message that God was love and there was a reason for suffering and sin in this world.

Now I am 53 years old and I have met a beautiful soul, a lady with an intellectual disability who's heart knows no evil. She and her mother have an unwavering faith and belief that I can be shown God's love. They prayed for me and shared their belief and answered my questions until I felt a tap on the shoulder from a God who has not abandoned me.

I am still not sure what to do about it. I read scripture and pray for guidance and feel more joy in my life because I feel as though I have a shining light to guide me to what is right.

I still love science and I don't think that faith in God excludes all the marvels we have been shown through its discoveries. In fact they show that God is truly marvelous and our earthly, human wisdom is only like that of a child grasping for understanding.

Thank you for reading this.
Caz

CazPerth wrote: Now I am 53 years old and I have met a beautiful soul, a lady with an intellectual disability who's heart knows no evil. She and her mother have an unwavering faith and belief that I can be shown God's love. They prayed for me and shared their belief and answered my questions until I felt a tap on the shoulder from a God who has not abandoned me.

I am still not sure what to do about it. I read scripture and pray for guidance and feel more joy in my life because I feel as though I have a shining light to guide me to what is right.

I still love science and I don't think that faith in God excludes all the marvels we have been shown through its discoveries. In fact they show that God is truly marvelous and our earthly, human wisdom is only like that of a child grasping for understanding.

Thank you for reading this.
Caz

Oh, wow, I think you are being led. My advice is to be patient. Learning and understanding takes time. I was also raised as atheist and made my opinion without proper exploration.

God bless.

CazPerth wrote:Hello

I am very shy about posting here. I am Caz, I live in Perth Australia. I found this forum because I was googling for science and Christian reconciliation. I enjoyed the many pages I read that gave a considerate discussion about how the seemingly opposed camps might be brought together.

Hi I am from Melbourne Australia, welcome fellow Aussie.
The bible is the why not the how, the Bible is very vague on exactly how creation happened and is open to interpretation.

But why was I searching? I was raised with no faith, my parents were hippies of the 60s era who rejected their Christian upbringings before I was born. I was left to "decide for myself" and so I decided that there could be no God in a world that seemed so cruel and chaotic (Vietnam war, Irish troubles, Biafra, Cambodia and so many other famines and wars that broke my heart to see on television as a child and young adult). I had nobody to give me the message that God was love and there was a reason for suffering and sin in this world.

Breaks my heart to, every day I ask why.

Now I am 53 years old and I have met a beautiful soul, a lady with an intellectual disability who's heart knows no evil. She and her mother have an unwavering faith and belief that I can be shown God's love. They prayed for me and shared their belief and answered my questions until I felt a tap on the shoulder from a God who has not abandoned me.

I am still not sure what to do about it. I read scripture and pray for guidance and feel more joy in my life because I feel as though I have a shining light to guide me to what is right.

I still love science and I don't think that faith in God excludes all the marvels we have been shown through its discoveries. In fact they show that God is truly marvelous and our earthly, human wisdom is only like that of a child grasping for understanding.

Science is awesome but science without God is meaningless, well at least in my opinion.

Dan

Hi Daniel, fellow Aussie

On the how and why of Creation I am forming an opinion that Genesis is largely allegorical and the Old Testament does not deal with all of evolution because it is concerned with Humans and basic morals by which we should live. The previous millions of years of biological and geological transformation from the big bang to a habitable biosphere are not relevant to that bigger picture so they are provided in a simple story of how we came to be on earth and how sin (free will) plays its part in the human relationship to God.

I find comfort in accepting that my human mind can not know all of God's design (I used to think that was just a platitude). When I was an Atheist/Agnostic I rejected God because I could not accept a supposedly loving God would allow suffering so I was arrogant enough to think that my own perception of the world was "right". I now believe that our God given free will is fundamental to being human. It is always going to be hard to accept that sometimes bad things happen to good people, I'm still working on that one

A humble seeker
Caz

Hi, I am from Georgia, and I am here to start to participate in the various discussions that abound.

I believe in the young earth methodology, in that the universe was created with the appearance of age, similar how Adam was created into a adult male from dust.

FallingScales wrote:Hi, I am from Georgia, and I am here to start to participate in the various discussions that abound.

I believe in the young earth methodology, in that the universe was created with the appearance of age, similar how Adam was created into a adult male from dust.

Welcome to the Discussion Forums, Falling Scales.

Do you really believe Adam was created with an appearance of age? I would say Adam was created mature, but not with things that we associate with age, like wrinkles, graying or loss of hair, sore joints, skin spots, etc. God creating Adam with an appearance of age, would be like God creating a mature tree with rings. The rings show a history of the tree. If God created a fully mature tree with rings, and a fully mature man with an appearance of a past that never happened, then wouldn't God be a deceiver?

Thanks for skipping the small talk, and jumping right into the deeper talk.

My choices of words are typically not the best, but just because there is an appearance of age does not mean there would be an intent to deceive. Appearance of age could merely be a byproduct of how God would go about creating, as it would either A. Directly come into existence , or B, start from something (dust) and go into something else, (Adam). Who is to say what the starting points would look like? To think that a fully mature whatever with appearance of age or not is up to God, and I doubt we would know his reasons. Just because we can think it is deceptive from our point of view doesn't mean that it is or was ever intended to be so.

FallingScales wrote:Hi, I am from Georgia, and I am here to start to participate in the various discussions that abound.

I believe in the young earth methodology, in that the universe was created with the appearance of age, similar how Adam was created into a adult male from dust.

Welcome!

FallingScales wrote:My choices of words are typically not the best, but just because there is an appearance of age does not mean there would be an intent to deceive. Appearance of age could merely be a byproduct of how God would go about creating, as it would either A. Directly come into existence , or B, start from something (dust) and go into something else, (Adam). Who is to say what the starting points would look like? To think that a fully mature whatever with appearance of age or not is up to God, and I doubt we would know his reasons. Just because we can think it is deceptive from our point of view doesn't mean that it is or was ever intended to be so.

Ok. Take for example, sn1987A. It was a supernova that was visible with the naked eye in 1987. If the universe is only 6000 years old, the light from that supernova must have been created in transit. Since the supernova was measured to be about 168,000 light years away, that means it took the light @ 168,000 years to reach earth. Or, if you believe the universe is only 6000 years old, the light appeared to come from a supernova that never actually existed. That would mean God intentionally deceived us.

So presuming God created the universe, your saying he'd skip out on the details of creating it, and have everything at fixed points of origin. If your going to create something that is at a mature state, everything leading up to that point probably needs to be in that state as well. The Earth needs to be habitable etc. Calling it an intentional deception still seems to me that you presume that is the only possible purpose of that being there, and it couldn't be some side affect of God's real purpose for doing it that way. Just because the purpose could be considered deceptive doesn't mean it is. Too many factors would have to be left out to make a definitive statement like that.

Oh and Hi 1/137

FallingScales,
When you said:

I believe in the young earth methodology, in that the universe was created with the appearance of age...

Is it safe to assume you believe the universe is about 6-10 thousand years old?

If yes, then how do you explain a supernova that is measured at 168,000 light years from earth?

Way to derail the introduction thread Rick. Nice moderating.

Welcome FallingScales

Kurieuo wrote:Way to derail the introduction thread Rick. Nice moderating.

Welcome FallingScales

Whaddya mean Kurieuo, this is the welcome I give to all Young Earth Creationists.