A window into my beleifs.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

I will not wrong back, I will not try to punish.

So you turn the other cheak? I'm ok with that.

I think its important to understand that one's morality is not one's salvation. Jesus is our salvation - that is the message to be considered. It seems I've run into a great many people who refuse to accept Jesus, and attempt to compensate by "being good".. It just dont work that way.

I don't compensate by being good. I am compelled too.
I understand your beleifs, and I understand that according to them I am damned.
But as with many holy people it is not fear of hell or punishment which compels me do good. It is the realization of the injustice and inequality of the world which compels me.

So where does your being good COME FROM then if "it is the realization of the injustice and inequality of the world which compels" you? What is it that compels you to help people when you couldn't care less about them in the first place, what is the source? Where does this care come from? Is it a random accident that we are created to do good for others?

I don't know.
But I cannot think or do otherwise.

[Kurieuo]

BGood,

I'm just wondering what you think of the Christian article at http://www.str.org/free/solid_ground/SG0105.htm (you may need to login first, but if you don't want to register you can simply login with kurieuo[at]godandscience.org (replacing the [at] with @)). I personally think it has some valuable insights with regards to morality. And as you appear to be first and foremost for showing the same love and kindness Christ did, I'm just wondering whether have you thought much about the issues mentioned in the article previously?

Kurieuo

[BGoodForGoodSake]

BGood,

I'm just wondering what you think of the Christian article at http://www.str.org/free/solid_ground/SG0105.htm (you may need to login first, but if you don't want to register you can simply login with kurieuo[at]godandscience.org (replacing the [at] with @)). I personally think it has some valuable insights with regards to morality. And as you appear to be first and foremost for showing the same love and kindness Christ did, I'm just wondering whether have you thought much about the issues mentioned in the article previously?

Kurieuo

First I am not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence with Christ. Please allow me humility.

I enjoyed the article but I disagree with a few points obviously. Perhaps one day we can argue these. But I must simply say if one can ignore moral impulses to satisfy individual needs, what of those individuals who feel that the entire human race is a part of them and that she is a part of the entire human race?

[Believer]

BGood,

I'm just wondering what you think of the Christian article at http://www.str.org/free/solid_ground/SG0105.htm (you may need to login first, but if you don't want to register you can simply login with kurieuo[at]godandscience.org (replacing the [at] with @)). I personally think it has some valuable insights with regards to morality. And as you appear to be first and foremost for showing the same love and kindness Christ did, I'm just wondering whether have you thought much about the issues mentioned in the article previously?

Kurieuo

First I am not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence with Christ. Please allow me humility.

I enjoyed the article but I disagree with a few points obviously. Perhaps one day we can argue these. But I must simply say if one can ignore moral impulses to satisfy individual needs, what of those individuals who feel that the entire human race is a part of them and that she is a part of the entire human race?

WHY DO YOU PERSIST IN DEBATING??? THIS IS OLD REHASHED ATHEIST ARGUMENTS THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN REFUTED BEFORE!!! HOW MANY MORE TIMES???

Brain it's rude to speak in caps *sigh*
perhaps the argument was not refuted in a satisfactory way so that it would answer all the questions that enquiring minds wish to understand.

I really feel like giving up, I really can't stand atheist arguments anymore, Christians have refuted their claims time and time again, but still they (atheists/agnostics) don't get it. As long as we have them, the debates just keep getting recycled. I have PM'ed BGoodForGoodSake, he/she comes from a Christian background, why are we discussing? Why is it so hard to accept Jesus, please tell me, why? Because we know He lived and what the Bible says about Him is true is not good enough? BGoodForGoodSake, you state you have spirituality, that means you aren't atheist or agnostic unless your playing games. I told you what I have experienced through PM, call me a liar if you want, I don't care, I told you what happened. How can you deny it let alone scientifically disprove it when no science is involved?

[Deborah]

And BGoodForGoodSake since you don't believe that jesus was/is son of God, then why would you state that you are not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence with him? If he is not the son of god, then he was just a man. And all men were created equal.

it's just a enquiring confused mind wants to know is all.

[Kurieuo]

Brian,

Please understand that BGoodForGoodSake has not as far as I'm concerned broken any discussion guidelines, but has been quite civil in her/his discussions. There is no need to lash out simply because she/he disagrees. Respect is still due to Christian and non-Christian alike, and anyone who posts here on the board.

Thanks,
Kurieuo.

[Believer]

Brian,

Please understand that BGoodForGoodSake has not as far as I'm concerned broken any discussion guidelines, but has been quite civil in her discussions. There is no need to lash out simply because she disagrees. Respect is still due to Christian and non-Christian alike.

Thanks,
Kurieuo.

I'm sorry, I am tired, it is too late, and I don't like these on going debates that have already been resolved/refuted earlier. I see this pointless. I already know what the result of this is going to be, what's the real point?

But then again, in my early days of being here, I had my problems too. It is God/Jesus/Holy Spirit that brought me to see the light.

[Deborah]

Point is Brain many want to understand, so they ask questions.
They don't honestly understand how it is that we come to our beliefs.
You said these questions have been covered, but perhaps not clear enough for the person asking the questions.
You must always show patience and understanding as it was shown to you.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

And BGoodForGoodSake since you don't believe that jesus was/is son of God, then why would you state that you are not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence with him? If he is not the son of god, then he was just a man. And all men were created equal.

it's just a enquiring confused mind wants to know is all.

This is becasue I am speaking as someone in your world.
From your perspective, Jesus is the Son of man.
One can understand without agreement the position Jesus holds in your worldview. And I have to humble myself when compared in such a manor.

[Felgar]

But for many holy people it is not fear of hell or punishment which compels them to do good.

But do you understand that it is not fear of hell or punishment that compels a Christian to do good? Rather, it is the love of our personal saviour, and the innate desire given through His grace to do His will and to serve Him. "Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment." (Matthew 22:37-18 )

If we have truly placed God and His will at the very center of our lives, and if we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, and minds, then we'll most certainly be compelled to do good. And that's why good works can never save - because Christianity is about loving God and being loved by Him - everything else is peripheral.

I'm sorry I haven't had time to keep right up to date, so I haven't read most of your posts. If someone's said the exact same thing I appologize. I am just trying to underscore the essence of what I believe it means to be a follower of Christ because I feel that so often it is overlooked.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

But for many holy people it is not fear of hell or punishment which compels them to do good.

But do you understand that it is not fear of hell or punishment that compels a Christian to do good? Rather, it is the love of our personal saviour, and the innate desire given through His grace to do His will and to serve Him. "Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment." (Matthew 22:37-18 )

If we have truly placed God and His will at the very center of our lives, and if we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, and minds, then we'll most certainly be compelled to do good. And that's why good works can never save - because Christianity is about loving God and being loved by Him - everything else is peripheral.

I'm sorry I haven't had time to keep right up to date, so I haven't read most of your posts. If someone's said the exact same thing I appologize. I am just trying to underscore the essence of what I believe it means to be a follower of Christ because I feel that so often it is overlooked.

Let us assume your right, what is God then? God is in us all around us and surrounds us. We are all a part of God. So to love God means to love yourself your neighbor and even the grass beneath your feet. Love your God, it is the first and greatest commandment.

[Deborah]

Let us assume your right, what is God then? God is in us all around us and surrounds us. We are all a part of God. So to love God means to love yourself your neighbor and even the grass beneath your feet. Love your God, it is the first and greatest commandment.

Matthew 22:36-40

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

does it not sounds the same ?

[BGoodForGoodSake]

Let us assume your right, what is God then? God is in us all around us and surrounds us. We are all a part of God. So to love God means to love yourself your neighbor and even the grass beneath your feet. Love your God, it is the first and greatest commandment.

Matthew 22:36-40

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

does it not sounds the same ?

It does deborah.
=)

[Felgar]

Let us assume your right, what is God then? God is in us all around us and surrounds us. We are all a part of God. So to love God means to love yourself your neighbor and even the grass beneath your feet.

Be very careful here. Yes, love your god with all your heart, soul, and mind. But it's very important that your god is THE God. It's not valid to say that God is in me (though he is), but it's the "therefore I love myself with all my heart" where it gets sticky. That would be a perversion of the truth.

You cannot serve two masters, even if the second is disguised as God himself. For the words of the Lord are written (Duetoronomy 5:7-8 ):
"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

Other gods include yourself, and your kin. And idols includes the earth itself, the magnificence of creation, and yes even the grass beneath your feet.

The plain truth is that you love God first, then love of His handywork (nature) and of His will (morality) and of those He also loves (your neighbours) will surely follow. For "all the Law and the Prophets hand on these commandments."

[BGoodForGoodSake]

Let us assume your right, what is God then? God is in us all around us and surrounds us. We are all a part of God. So to love God means to love yourself your neighbor and even the grass beneath your feet.

Be very careful here. Yes, love your god with all your heart, soul, and mind. But it's very important that your god is THE God. It's not valid to say that God is in me (though he is), but it's the "therefore I love myself with all my heart" where it gets sticky. That would be a perversion of the truth.

You cannot serve two masters, even if the second is disguised as God himself. For the words of the Lord are written (Duetoronomy 5:7-8 ):
"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

Other gods include yourself, and your kin. And idols includes the earth itself, the magnificence of creation, and yes even the grass beneath your feet.

The plain truth is that you love God first, then love of His handywork (nature) and of His will (morality) and of those He also loves (your neighbours) will surely follow. For "all the Law and the Prophets hand on these commandments."

This is true for those who accept the Lord as their savior. But there are many in the world not of this flock.