Evidence for God from Science

tarreyl wrote:how can I tell you to not to kill your baby women will just find other ways ot kill their baby. Why should we have them do it the safe way intstead of hurting themselve serious so they can never have kids of their own when they are ready. their are doctors who dont now how to get ride of the baby right they could hurt the mother that is what is going to happen if we get ride of abortion women will find hurt full ways of getting ride of their baby instead of doijng the right way. When do you think a baby is a baby when they are 1 week aleast growing inside you not when they concived like some I belive.

Yech! Tarrel, I am so disgusted by your comments! Your telling us that a mother should be spared the consequences of her actions by having "it" (the killing of an inoccent) done profesisionaly? God forbid a women should take any responibility for her self.

I already argued my point on a secular thread if you want to read I will not even bother regurgitating it here.

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

bizzt wrote:

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

bizzt wrote: That is correct however we have a Moral obligation to have a law to stop Abortions. Not only Moral but having an Abortion is Health Risk for a Mother! I am sure there are more then enough people in the World that would want unwanted Babies!!! If Adoption was not as expensive as it is then My wife and I would adopt! The Devil wants us to give up, Satan likes us to not interfere with the Sin of this World. What I don't understand even if it is a Rape Victim a Baby is a Baby period. It may have been unwanted at the time but someone wants that Baby whether it be the Mother or someone who wants to adopt! Doesn't Everyone love Capitalism sometimes

Anyways just some thoughts to think on

This is indeed a very complex issue. However I am uneasy at the thought of babies being seen as a commodity.

Also as Mystical said banning abortions will not lead to fewer abortions, and not only the rich as she stated. When abortions were illegal many young mothers, many of which were poor, lost their lives after performing abortions by themselves or with the help of ill trained individuals.

I beg the Differ. Did people Abort Babies before Abortion was an Option? Do you have Stats on that? If Abortion were never an option if as a People we had enough Morality to know that it was wrong to take another humans life because of Inconvenience. (rape aside) Seriously since Abortion became an option how many Babies are lost each year? IN we'll say America? So we would not want people to perform Abortions on themselves so we give them a Doctor Assisted way. Why not the slashing of Wrists, Here let us help you and the "Killing Clinic" will take your life!

Sorry getting a little heated

Keep in mind I am against abortion. However the truth still stands.
http://www.womenscommunitymedicalclinic.com/myths.html

Might be a little Bias here?

All of our physicians who perform therapeutic abortion procedures

and that information provided was taken from

This information was taken from the National Abortion Federation (NAF) Web Site under the Celebrating 25 Years of Reproductive Choice then go to Myths about abortion.

which is actually http://www.prochoice.com

In any case be advised what you read on that webpage is not exactly the FACTS that they portray it to be.

Celebrating 25 Years of Reproductive Choice

Should read 'Celebrating 25 years of killing innocent babies for the convenience of others'

Blah, I used to think that people didn't have abortions as a 'method of birth control' until I did my own research from the Center for disease Control and various other places...sheesh! was I wrong!

bizzt wrote:

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

bizzt wrote:

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

bizzt wrote: That is correct however we have a Moral obligation to have a law to stop Abortions. Not only Moral but having an Abortion is Health Risk for a Mother! I am sure there are more then enough people in the World that would want unwanted Babies!!! If Adoption was not as expensive as it is then My wife and I would adopt! The Devil wants us to give up, Satan likes us to not interfere with the Sin of this World. What I don't understand even if it is a Rape Victim a Baby is a Baby period. It may have been unwanted at the time but someone wants that Baby whether it be the Mother or someone who wants to adopt! Doesn't Everyone love Capitalism sometimes

Anyways just some thoughts to think on

This is indeed a very complex issue. However I am uneasy at the thought of babies being seen as a commodity.

Also as Mystical said banning abortions will not lead to fewer abortions, and not only the rich as she stated. When abortions were illegal many young mothers, many of which were poor, lost their lives after performing abortions by themselves or with the help of ill trained individuals.

I beg the Differ. Did people Abort Babies before Abortion was an Option? Do you have Stats on that? If Abortion were never an option if as a People we had enough Morality to know that it was wrong to take another humans life because of Inconvenience. (rape aside) Seriously since Abortion became an option how many Babies are lost each year? IN we'll say America? So we would not want people to perform Abortions on themselves so we give them a Doctor Assisted way. Why not the slashing of Wrists, Here let us help you and the "Killing Clinic" will take your life!

Sorry getting a little heated

Keep in mind I am against abortion. However the truth still stands.
http://www.womenscommunitymedicalclinic.com/myths.html

Might be a little Bias here?

All of our physicians who perform therapeutic abortion procedures

and that information provided was taken from

This information was taken from the National Abortion Federation (NAF) Web Site under the Celebrating 25 Years of Reproductive Choice then go to Myths about abortion.

which is actually http://www.prochoice.com

In any case be advised what you read on that webpage is not exactly the FACTS that they portray it to be.

The source might be biased however I have checked the figures and facts against other sources and through research and they appear to be correct.

So if abortion is made illegal, but this won't stop abortions or lessen them, what is the point of making it illegal? If it is made illegal, what might be the consequences to people who have abortions?

Are there any studies that demonstrate that education is an effective method for reducing abortions?

Mystical wrote:So if abortion is made illegal, but this won't stop abortions or lessen them, what is the point of making it illegal? If it is made illegal, what might be the consequences to people who have abortions?

Are there any studies that demonstrate that education is an effective method for reducing abortions?

If Tobacco was made illegal do you think it would stop people from Smoking? If Abortion was made illegal and you can be tried for Killing an innocent Baby do you not think people would stop killing them! Like who can really say if this would stop abortions or lessen them. That is not a fact that it would or wouldn't however making it illegal would certainly put a moral value on a Baby not yet born.

The consequences might be Jail Term depending on the Circumstances of course. Who knows??

Since it is Legal right now Education is the only Method we have for reducing Abortions!

Mystical wrote:So if abortion is made illegal, but this won't stop abortions or lessen them, what is the point of making it illegal? If it is made illegal, what might be the consequences to people who have abortions?

Are there any studies that demonstrate that education is an effective method for reducing abortions?

As strong as we are against abortions, there are people out there just as strong about the womans right to choose. If abortions were made illegal and furthermore the laws enforced, the situation would be an ugly one. This is an issue which could tear apart the Union. One must be very careful when this is the case. The last time this occured there were protest and riots in the streets, the time before many people lost their lives in a bloody civil war.

The only other option is persuation. I myself beleive that a woman has a right to choose. But when the choice effects two lives then it becomes a selfish choice. I think we present the issue as one voice speaking for two. I doubt many adopted children would prefer they had never lived. Yet the mother is speaking for one who does not yet have a voice. I think it is wrong and unfair.

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:As strong as we are against abortions, there are people out there just as strong about the womans right to choose. If abortions were made illegal and furthermore the laws enforced, the situation would be an ugly one. This is an issue which could tear apart the Union. One must be very careful when this is the case. The last time this occured there were protest and riots in the streets, the time before many people lost their lives in a bloody civil war.

Things are already ugly. Many thousands of people are loosing their lives every day. Fighting for the lives of the innocent and helpless is a just cause. Advocating a mother's right to take the life of her unborn child is the same as advocating a mother's right to take the life of her toddler. I see no difference. Both are human lives, and therefore both are equal beings regardless of size, location, development or dependancy.

Kurieuo

Not only is an innocent life taken in a abortion, but the life of the mother who had the abortion is also harmed (as well as the father). I think we must also look at the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual consequences the mother and father who have the abortion face (although the father isn't directly involved with the abortion, he is still affected by it). I'll be back tonight (keep in mind I'm on Saskatchewan time ) with some facts (if I remember) if no one else covers it by then

Well, obviously I didn't get a chance to post last night (something came up last minute )

*hopes there are no rules about double posting*

Here's just a few quick facts:

A survey of women who had undergone an abortion procedure found that 31 percent experienced suicidal feelings; 50 percent experience emotional and psychological disturbances lasting months; 28 percent attempted suicide; 60 percent commented that the decision to have an abortion made their lives worse; and 94 percent regretted the decision to have an abortion."("Abortion: How Much Do You Know?" and "Abortion: Your Risks," both published by The American Life League.)

An abortion could also result in breast cancer, future miscarriages, difficulty conceiving children among other risks.

Anyways, that's all I have time for at the moment. School calls!
Blessings and Prayers,
Veronica

Kurieuo,

The question I have for you then, is when does the zygote become a life form? Is the gastrula or blastocyst stage considered life? How do people feel about the morning-after pill? Or RU-486 (I think that is what it is called)?

My opinions have been previously expressed on this issue several times. I'd recommend reading over some of them in the thread at http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... .php?t=267 (more into the thread than at the beginning) for a better idea of my beliefs.

Kurieuo

why should women have to go full term with a baby when they were raped and they would be remind off what happened or it was traumatic for this girl to get rapped then to have to have this baby to full term or a medical reason that but the mother in harms way? should the mother die for the baby? How Can I has a Christen tell other women not to do it. How is it different If people shot each other or kill. DO we has christen have the right to condem them for there choices? How can we tell them it right or wrong were do we get the right to judge them like that? That is god place not Christens

tarreyl, have you any idea of the number of women that are raped then die carrying the child? Ever heard of a C-section? Ever heard two wrongs don't make a right? C'mon those are just cop outs! 47 million babies are butchered so far in the states alone. Give your head a shake!

And I would add how does a woman being raped change the nature of the baby inside? What is important in the abortion debate is whether the unborn have rights, and I believe they should be afforded every right to life a born human being has.

As a further insight, many women who were raped and carried their baby to term haven't regretted it. On the other hand many who aborted have ended up compacting their pain and depression. Would you have women raped further compound there pain by aborting? Abortion isn't necessarily the answer, and certainly is by no means the only alternative. Further, rape cases are a minority of abortion cases (like less than 1%). For more on the issue of rape and abortion I recommend reading the article at http://www.bfl.org/rape_and_incest.htm. However, this is really a side issue as if the unborn is a human life then they ought to be given every right the born do.

Kurieuo