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Re: it is weird.

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:54 am
by Canuckster1127
Oriental wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote: Oriental,

Thanks for being so transparent and honest. There are times when we have to persevere and hold onto it.

What do you think comes first for a Christian.

Peace and Joy or perfect obedience to His Word?

Bart
Bart,

It is nice to hear your reply. I feel uneasy often; I find that a lot of people do not think the same way I do. It makes me like a weird guy and people find difficult to get along with me easily.

Last night I chat with my sister. We quarreled quite much. What caused it might sound strange to you all. It was the manner that I complained about she didn't live up to my expectation of her loving properly her younger brother and I complained of her self-centerness.

She replied that all members of family had trouble to talk to me because what I complained about made them inferior; I have spoken some words that come from scriptural wisdom which sounds novel to them all; in fact, I follow scriptural words as best as I can but I often find others never treat me the same way back. I am quite frustrated.

Yes it is peace and joy that our relationship with God can make me feel serene in morning prayers and church service; as long as I step out of the church, I find myself pretty weird guy among the world in which everybody seems to care about himself only and altruism is entirely something once in blue moon everywhere. The loneliness is dreadful.


Oriental.
I can sense a lot of that frustration on your posts and I am sorry that it is so for you.

I know too, that as a Canadian/American my culture and way of looking at some of this is quite different than what yours is and so I am thinking of that very carefully as I speak with you.

If I may be so bold, please allow me to give you some input that might be helpful, and if it is not, I will not be offended at all if you do not think it is good.

Jesus told us very clearly in his word that when we are His followers that we will be maligned and misunderstood and even persecuted; even by our own families. I do not know your family and what is at work. Usually when a family member makes such a decision and begins to live for Christ, they feel threatened by it and fearful. Some can become angry because the change in someone they know and love makes them aware of their own sinfulness and need for Christ. If you can remember, you likely wrestled with this a great deal before you were saved and accepted Christ as your Savior.

While all this is true, and we ought to recognize that even if we do everything "right" to reach and share the love of Christ with our family, it is not a guarantee to us that our family will accept Him.

Of course, we are still wrestling with our own sinful natures and we don't do everything right. I know the relationship is different, and I am not suggesting that it is the same, but I believe Scripture gives us some advice in this area in I Cor 7:12-17.
12But to the rest (K)I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.

13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are (L)holy.

15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us (M)to peace.

16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will (N)save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

17Only, (O)as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk And (P)so I direct in (Q)all the churches.


Obviously this is about marriage. But I believe there are some principles that we can glean that apply.

1. You must follow Christ first and foremost and not allow the belief or unbelief of your family to affect your relationship with God.

2. You must accept that your following Christ may cost you your family, as painful as that might be.

3. As long as your family still accepts and loves you, even if they don't understand or accept your decision for Christ, then you should love them back, and use the opportunity to show them the love of Christ as much as you can and God enables you.

4. Sometimes, while we have some knowledge and understanding that we want to share with our family, it is more effective to speak less and show them by our actions the change that Christ has made in our lives.

If we "preach" constantly to them, over time their hearts may harden and resent what we have to say. We may know what God's Word says and want to speak out when we see immoral or unwise behavior. It is then, I believe, that we must understand that people sin because they are sinners, just as we were before we received Christ. We do not and should not enable them to sin by our behavior or words when we see it, but we should realize that we cannot change their behavior. Even if we can in some instances (like a parent with a child where we have that authority) we need to keep in mind that their greatest need is Christ as Savior.

It's a very hard line to walk and there is no perfect way we can do it because we are not perfect.

Maybe ask God to give you a greater sense of His peace and joy. Use the followship at your Church to have people in your life who are brothers and sisters in Christ and ask God to help you find peace and joy there.

Continue to love your family, pray for them and show them the love of Christ. Maybe ask God if you should speak less and act more and ask God for wisdom to know when to speak and then trust Him to answer that prayer.

I am sorry if I am saying anything here that comes from ignorance of your situation. I do not understand it completely. God does and maybe some of this will help.

Be joyful. Rejoice in what God is doing in your life. It hurts to love people and know they don't know Jesus. You may be a tool in God's hand to change that, but it is God and His Holy Spirit who must do the work. Rest in that and perhaps God can fill you more with his peace and joy.

Bart

Exactly the situation that I am in.

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:23 pm
by Oriental
Canuckster1127 wrote:
4. Sometimes, while we have some knowledge and understanding that we want to share with our family, it is more effective to speak less and show them by our actions the change that Christ has made in our lives.

If we "preach" constantly to them, over time their hearts may harden and resent what we have to say. We may know what God's Word says and want to speak out when we see immoral or unwise behavior. It is then, I believe, that we must understand that people sin because they are sinners, just as we were before we received Christ. We do not and should not enable them to sin by our behavior or words when we see it, but we should realize that we cannot change their behavior. Even if we can in some instances (like a parent with a child where we have that authority) we need to keep in mind that their greatest need is Christ as Savior.

It's a very hard line to walk and there is no perfect way we can do it because we are not perfect.

Maybe ask God to give you a greater sense of His peace and joy. Use the followship at your Church to have people in your life who are brothers and sisters in Christ and ask God to help you find peace and joy there.

Continue to love your family, pray for them and show them the love of Christ. Maybe ask God if you should speak less and act more and ask God for wisdom to know when to speak and then trust Him to answer that prayer.

I am sorry if I am saying anything here that comes from ignorance of your situation. I do not understand it completely. God does and maybe some of this will help.

Be joyful. Rejoice in what God is doing in your life. It hurts to love people and know they don't know Jesus. You may be a tool in God's hand to change that, but it is God and His Holy Spirit who must do the work. Rest in that and perhaps God can fill you more with his peace and joy.

Bart
Bart,

Thanks a lot for your words. It is kind of you.

It is exactly the situation in which I could have spoken too much and they became sort of defensive and felt ill against the religion. I know I do it on my own accounts and it is issue I have to resolve on my own; your advice is precious and invaluable. By God's grace I trust everything will go well.


Oriental.

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:58 pm
by Gman
Hi Oriental,

Yes, Bart is our big league home run hitter... He's got more moves than Chuck Norris that is for sure... :P

I also want to support you and your family dealings Oriental. I'm the only one of 3 children that came to Christ back in 87. I know families can be tough to deal with, (since I can see your issues). I'll pray for you that it will work out.

Take care and God bless!

G -

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:02 pm
by Canuckster1127
Gman wrote:Hi Oriental,

Yes, Bart is our big league home run hitter... He's got more moves than Chuck Norris that is for sure... :P

I also want to support you and your family dealings Oriental. I'm the only one of 3 children that came to Christ back in 87. I know families can be tough to deal with, (since I can see your issues). I'll pray for you that it will work out.

Take care and God bless!

G -
I'm just a brother in Christ who has had the privilege of some training and experience in ministry and who tries to take some risks where he can. I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go.

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:18 pm
by Gman
Canuckster1127 wrote:
Gman wrote:Hi Oriental,

Yes, Bart is our big league home run hitter... He's got more moves than Chuck Norris that is for sure... :P

I also want to support you and your family dealings Oriental. I'm the only one of 3 children that came to Christ back in 87. I know families can be tough to deal with, (since I can see your issues). I'll pray for you that it will work out.

Take care and God bless!

G -
I'm just a brother in Christ who has had the privilege of some training and experience in ministry and who tries to take some risks where he can. I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
Oriental... On top of that he is modest too... :wink:

G -

Catholic Church?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:18 am
by Oriental
Gman,

I can see Bart is veteran in counselling and well-trained. Glory to the Lord!

Would like to ask one question: what version of bible do you guys read? I have NIV version on my desk but I can see many read King James Version; my English proficiency is not good enough to use KJV; is this version better to convey God's words?

In addition, we can't see why we often discuss on forum but if bible is such a solemn one to read and know Him isn't there some official interpretation by biblical authority in the world which is unambiguous and followed? I doubt if we should look to Vatican office; I figure that they are Roman Catholics vastly different from the mass that takes protestants' school of thoughts.

Years ago I attended Catholic Church I found much more freedom hanging around. People got off the Church when masses were over, though; I couldn't find any significant difference between listening to sermons in chapels and attending masses; in both cases, hymns were sung with almost the same musical instruments. I never read praise for Mary. I know Catholics take different stance on her position as Jesus's mother; the Catholic Church i went to played down this side; sermons were as though Protestant Church is giving. I think now Catholics change a lot diminishing the arguable side of their dogmas.

How do you think?

Oriental.

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:23 am
by Canuckster1127
I use the NIV for just reading, the NASB for study and when I want to get serious I can work in the NT from the greek.

The KJV is dearly loved by many because of its history and impact on Engish Language and culture. It is not the best bible to use for study however, because it is almost 400 years old and the English language iitself has changed enough to warrant new translations. It also used a group of manuscripts that are no longer seen as the best to use since new ones have been found and better arranged. I still like it very much because I find the language beautiful and I grew up with it.

There are some people who elevate the KJV above all translations. I don't agree with them on that.

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:29 pm
by Gman
Hi Oriental,

I'm more of a KJV guy. I love the wording and the overall structure of it, plus it tells you when a word was added in. I have a very expensive version of it from Oxford where I write most of my notes... I must admit though, when I have trouble reading or understanding something, I will also rely on the NIV. I think I have 16 different versions of the Bible on my shelf just to get my bases and understanding covered. Of course nowadays it's all online.. :cry:

G -

Re: Catholic Church?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:00 pm
by Atticus Finch
Oriental wrote:
The KJV has some really beautiful language which when read from a nice passage can really sound fantastic.

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever."

That one line from Ecclesiastes can make one think for hours. The language makes it all the more special to meditate on.

Old Self that worsens it often.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:08 pm
by Oriental
Judah wrote:Oriental, I am sorry to hear that you are feeling lonely and finding it difficult being a Christian among those who are not. Perhaps you will be encouraged by knowing that Jesus already understands what you are experiencing.
John 15:18-20 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.
I am another Christian living in a family who is not. In my situation I find it is better to live in obedience to Christ and show His love through my own life rather than by telling others how they should behave. Remember that if someone is not a Christian, then they have made no committment to behaving as a Christian would. You must not judge them by the same standard that you would another Christian.

Here are some more words of Jesus to consider.
Matthew 7:1-5 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It is so tempting to be telling others how they are to behave and to be correcting them. This does not go down at all well with lots of folk and will make you unpopular very quickly. I would encourage you in your situation to put your efforts into living the Christian life and showing others by your own actions how Jesus would behave. I find that works best for me, and eventually it does have people ask me how it is I can be so patient, or helpful, or kind, or generous, or whatever. Then when they ask I have the opportunity to tell them about Jesus and how He wants me to be that way, and how He helps me to be so.

Here are some more words to remember:
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
It sounds as though you could do with a few Christian friends to share with, and maybe the pastor of your church would be able to help you find some.

Meanwhile, I hope these words will be of some help and encouragement to you.

Thank you so much.

Alas I have got so much to learn. I am acutely aware of my short-comings. My old behavioral habits always betray me, reducing me to a bad one although I proclaim myself to be a Christian. Now and then I hesitate to tell people of my religious identity. Basically, things may turn ugly if behavorial appearance draws discredit. This often makes my reputation, as well as fellow Christians' reputation, increasingly tattered.

Reliance on God is still vitally important from time to time.

Oriental.



..

Re: Old Self that worsens it often.

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:23 am
by Judah
Oriental wrote:Thank you so much.

Alas I have got so much to learn. I am acutely aware of my short-comings. My old behavioral habits always betray me, reducing me to a bad one although I proclaim myself to be a Christian. Now and then I hesitate to tell people of my religious identity. Basically, things may turn ugly if behavorial appearance draws discredit. This often makes my reputation, as well as fellow Christians' reputation, increasingly tattered.

Reliance on God is still vitally important from time to time.

Oriental.
Ah, I see you found my post! :wink:
FFC and I both posted simultaneously, and then Canuckster did soon after thus a new page was made making the previous 2 posts easily missed.

Oriental, that is a problem we all have - not being perfect and therefore thinking that we are poor examples of Christianity and don't represent Christ in a way that would encourage people to follow Him.

I think the way to cope with that is to recognize how much one's pride is involved and see that there is a need for humility.

When we do something that is not Christ-like, or omit to do something we should do, then we need to be able to say sorry.
It means apologizing to others, confessing that we messed up, asking forgiveness, and finding a way to put it right.
It means confessing to our Lord as well, asking His forgiveness too, and for whatever is required to do better next time.

The important thing is not to feel a failure and sorry for ourselves, telling ourselves we are hopeless Christians for letting Him down.
Instead, we know we are forgiven and know we must pick ourselves up and carry on regardless.
Philippians 3: 13 ...But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Simply admitting to others that your behaviour was not as it should have been, and doing what you can to put things right, is usually an extraordinary thing in itself. Others will see the effects of Christ living within you when you are humble and gracious in this way, and you will be witnessing to the power of the Holy Spirit working in you regardless of what you did wrong.

Be encouraged, Oriental. We are all sinners. We all fail, let ourselves down, feel that we have let Christ down and been less than worthy witnesses. But you can recover quickly by leaning on Him, abandoning your pride, hopping straight up and pressing onwards regardless.

God bless. 8)

Re: How long have you beleived

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:45 am
by kipdam
I have believed in God ever since my Grandma tolded me about Him, that was when I can understand things says 3yrs old may be. It's been a long time... say for as long as I can remember. I sometimes question His existence when things go wrong but I can tell you, he lives. All I can describe Him in one word is LOVE.

Re: How long have you beleived

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:15 pm
by Judah
Hello kipdam, and welcome to the Forum! 8)