Evidence for God from Science

LowlyOne wrote:The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38 ), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).

By-the evidence bible

I'd like to add that when 4 people witness a car accident from 4 different sides of the car, that doesn't at all mean that each account is untrue.

I am debating an atheist about many of those. see my site under Textual criticism at: http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... historyevi

"Contrary" to what many Christians believe, there are contradictions in our modern Bibles. This can usually be solved when one goes back to the earlier texts. Sometimes the translators did not realize that when they slightly changed a word and then it was changed again, it appears as a contradiction. I have many listed "Bible contradictions" that I have worked on and also added links to other sites that work on these.

Just a few alleged ones are:
Who killed Goliath?
How many people sojouned into Egypt?
Was Jesus a decendant of a "childless" man? etc.

I also have a forum which is too extensive to copy and paste it all. I used to be a skeptic myself but found that archeology and history support the Bible tremendously.

Here is the site (under Textual Criticism) that answers the following: http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... rum-2.html

1. Which Hour did was Jesus Crucified?
2. Which version of Paul's conversion is true?
3. Which version of Creation and the Flood are true? see: http://specialtyinterests.net/Toledoth.html

more.

Using the Peshitta, I think this chronology of events seems to meet the challenge. See what you think.

http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... ut296.html

Which version of the conversion is correct?

see: http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... ut276.html

Many skeptics have fun with this one. They will point out that Matthew 21:1-7 teaches that Jesus rode upon two donkeys. If you read our modern translations, yes, they are correct, however, the Oldest texts (Syriac Peshitta tranlated into English) read like this:

Matthew 21:1

AND when he drew nigh to Urishlem, and had come to Beth-phage, at the mount of Olives, Jeshu sent two of his disciples, and said to them, Go to this village which is over against you, and you shall at once find an ass tied, and her colt with her; loose and bring (them) to me. And if any one say ought to you, say to him that it is requested for our Lord, and immediately he will send them hither. But all this was done that there should be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet, who said, Tell you the daughter of Tsheum, Behold, thy king cometh to thee, lowly, and riding on an ass, and on a colt the foal of an ass. Then the disciples went, and did as Jeshu had commanded them; and brought the ass and the colt, and laid upon the colt their clothes, and Jeshu rode upon him.

This agrees with Mark 11:1

AND when they drew nigh to Urishlem, against Bethphage and Beth-ania, at the mount of Olives, he sent two from his disciples, and said to them, Go to that village which is over against you; and forthwith as you enter it, you will find a colt tied, which no man hath ridden; loose, bring him. And if any man shall say to you, Why do you this ? say to him, Because for our Lord it is requested, and at once he will send him hither. And they went, and found the colt tied at the gate without in the street. And as they were loosing, some of those who were standing said to them, What are you doing that you loosen the colt ? But they said to them as Jeshu had instructed them; and they permitted them. And they brought the colt to Jeshu, and threw upon him their garments; and Jeshu rode upon him

Luke 19:28

AND when Jeshu had said these things, he went forward to go to Urishlem. And when he came to Bethphage and Beth-ania, at the mount that is called the Place of Olives, he sent two from his disciples, and said to them, Go to the village over against us; and as you enter, behold, you will find a colt tied, whereon no man hath ridden: loose and bring him. And if any man demand why you loose him, thus say: It is requested by our Lord. And they who were sent went and found as he had told them. And as they were loosing the colt, the owners of him said to them, Why loose you the colt ? And they said to them, Because by our Lord it is requested. And they brought him to Jeshu; and they cast upon the colt their garments, and Jeshu rode upon him.

Notice that Jesus only rode upon one colt, not upon two. This was the fulfillment of Zech 9:9 which states:

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Response: Luke 3:23 (not 2:23) does not actually say that Jesus"was the son" of Joseph. It reads that he was "supposed as being" or "was allowed" to be as a son of Joseph. See below:

Vaticinus: "And he was the Jesus about years thirty, beginning, being , as was allowed, a son of Joseph, of the Heli"

Sinai Text: "And Jesus himself was, when he began his ministry, about thirty years old, being as was supposed, the son of Joseph, son of Heli"

Aramaic Peshitta (English Translation) "NOW Jeshu himself was as a son of thirty years, and was considered the son of Jauseph bar Heli"

Also see:
(Difficulties of the Bible/R.A. Torrey) A favorite point of attack on the Bible, for those who deny its divine origin and inerrancy, are the two varying genealogies of Jesus Christ. Not only is this a favorite point of attack by unbelievers, but it is also a point that often puzzles earnest students of the Bible. It is perfectly clear that the two genealogies differ widely from one another, and yet each of them is given as the genealogy of Jesus Christ. How can they both possible be true?
There is a very simple answer to the question. The genealogy given in Matthew is the genealogy of Joseph, the reputed father of Jesus, and His father in the eyes of the law. The genealogy given in Luke is the genealogy of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and is the human genealogy of Jesus Christ in actual fact. The gospel of Matthew was written for Jews. All through it, Joseph is prominent, and Mary is scarcely mentioned. In Luke, on the other hand, Mary is the chief personage in the whole account of the Savior's conception and birth. In all of this, there is a deep significance. In Matthew, Jesus appears as the Messiah. In Luke He appears as the “Son of Man.” The genealogy in Matthew descends from Abraham to Joseph and Jesus, because all the promises touching the Messiah are fulfilled in Him. However in Luke, the genealogy ascends from Jesus to Adam, because the genealogy is being traced back to the head of the whole race, to show the relation of the Second Adam to the first. Joseph's line is the strictly royal line from David to Joseph. In Luke, though the line of descent is from David, it is not the royal line. In this, Jesus is descended from David through Nathan, David's son indeed, but not in the royal line, and the list follows a line quite distinct from the royal line. Mary was a descendant of David through her father, Heli. It is true that Luke 3:23 says that Joseph was the son of Heli. The simple explanation of this is that, Mary being a woman, her name according to Jewish usage could not come into the genealogy. Males alone formed the line, so Joseph's name is introduced in the place of Mary's. He being Mary's husband, Heli was his father-in-law; and so Joseph is called the son of Heli, and the line is thus completed. While Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli, according to the flesh he was in actual fact the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16).
Two genealogies are needed to trace the lineage or Jesus. One was legal and the other was natural.

Response: Luke 3:23 (not 2:23) does not actually say that Jesus"was the son" of Joseph. It reads that he was "supposed as being" or "was allowed" to be as a son of Joseph. See below:

Vaticinus: "And he was the Jesus about years thirty, beginning, being , as was allowed, a son of Joseph, of the Heli"

Sinai Text: "And Jesus himself was, when he began his ministry, about thirty years old, being as was supposed, the son of Joseph, son of Heli"

Aramaic Peshitta (English Translation) "NOW Jeshu himself was as a son of thirty years, and was considered the son of Jauseph bar Heli"

Also see:
(Difficulties of the Bible/R.A. Torrey) A favorite point of attack on the Bible, for those who deny its divine origin and inerrancy, are the two varying genealogies of Jesus Christ. Not only is this a favorite point of attack by unbelievers, but it is also a point that often puzzles earnest students of the Bible. It is perfectly clear that the two genealogies differ widely from one another, and yet each of them is given as the genealogy of Jesus Christ. How can they both possible be true?
There is a very simple answer to the question. The genealogy given in Matthew is the genealogy of Joseph, the reputed father of Jesus, and His father in the eyes of the law. The genealogy given in Luke is the genealogy of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and is the human genealogy of Jesus Christ in actual fact. The gospel of Matthew was written for Jews. All through it, Joseph is prominent, and Mary is scarcely mentioned. In Luke, on the other hand, Mary is the chief personage in the whole account of the Savior's conception and birth. In all of this, there is a deep significance. In Matthew, Jesus appears as the Messiah. In Luke He appears as the “Son of Man.” The genealogy in Matthew descends from Abraham to Joseph and Jesus, because all the promises touching the Messiah are fulfilled in Him. However in Luke, the genealogy ascends from Jesus to Adam, because the genealogy is being traced back to the head of the whole race, to show the relation of the Second Adam to the first. Joseph's line is the strictly royal line from David to Joseph. In Luke, though the line of descent is from David, it is not the royal line. In this, Jesus is descended from David through Nathan, David's son indeed, but not in the royal line, and the list follows a line quite distinct from the royal line. Mary was a descendant of David through her father, Heli. It is true that Luke 3:23 says that Joseph was the son of Heli. The simple explanation of this is that, Mary being a woman, her name according to Jewish usage could not come into the genealogy. Males alone formed the line, so Joseph's name is introduced in the place of Mary's. He being Mary's husband, Heli was his father-in-law; and so Joseph is called the son of Heli, and the line is thus completed. While Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli, according to the flesh he was in actual fact the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16).
Two genealogies are needed to trace the lineage or Jesus. One was legal and the other was natural.

Most people do not know that in the Ancient Septuagint, there are two different words used for "light" in the Genesis account. The first word means "fire" or "torch" When God said "Let there be light" he was speaking of fire. The next word used for fire (when the Sun and moon and stars were created, he used the word for "illuminator".

see: http://www.septuagint-interlinear-greek ... enesis.pdf

(Note: index and concordance must be purchased but books can be downloaded for free).

What hour was Jesus crucified?

see:

http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... ut278.html

There is another discrepency in our modern Bibles based on the Masoretic Text. It is between Numbers chapter 4 and chapter 8.

In Numbers 4 the ages of the Levites qualified to minister in the temple was between ages 30 to 50
Yet
In Numbers 8, the ages are between 25 and 50.


In the Septuagint however, both chapters say between 25 and 50 each time. There is no discrepency. see: http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Numbers/Numbers%20LXX.htm

see: Numbers 4: 3, 23, 30, 35, 39
and Numbers 8: 24

Difficulty:
Genesis 15:13.16 God foretold the enslavement of the
descendants of Abram (Abraham). but said they would return in the "fourth generation".
The return actually occurred in the fifth generation--or the
sixth. if you wish to count Abraham. The generations were: 1.
Abraham: 2. Isaac (Gen 21:3): 3. Levi (Ex 1:3); 4. Kohath (Ex
6:16); 5. Aram (Ex 6:1: 6. Moses (Ex 6:20).

Answer:
The “fourth generation” is not speaking of the fourth generation from Abraham but the fourth generation from “the sojourning into the land” mentioned in verse 13. This would begin with the 12 sons of Jacob. Levi was one of those “descendents” in the “sojourning.” The four generations are stated in Exodus 6:16-20, where, starting with Levi (from the time when the twelve sons went into Egypt), we note that Kohath, Amram and Moses bring us to the fourth generation.(Levi, Kohath, Amram, Moses = 4 generations.)
We also read that Joseph lived unto the “third generation” while he was in Egypt which would mean this was not referring to the generation starting with Abraham, because Joseph himself was born from the third generation after Abraham. Before Joseph died, he prophesied that God would soon visit them. In the fourth gerneration, this prophecy was fulfilled through Moses.

The LXX reads as follows:
Gen 15: 13 And it was said to Abram, Thou shalt surely know that thy seed shall be a sojourner in a land not their own, and they shall enslave them, and afflict them, and humble them four hundred years. 14 And the nation whomsoever they shall serve I will judge; and after this, they shall come forth hither with much property. 15 But thou shalt depart to thy fathers in peace, nourished in a good old age. 16 And in the fourth generation they shall return hither, for the sins of the Amorites are not yet filled up, even until now.

Difficulty:
Who brought Joseph to Egypt and sold
him to Potiphar, the courtier of Pharaoh?
Genesis 37:38,36 The Midianites.
Geneis 39:1 The Ishmaelites.

Answer:
To begin with, both texts say that the "Ismaelites" sold Joseph in Egypt.

LXX
37: 25 And they sat down to eat bread; and having lifted up
their eyes they beheld, and lo, Ismaelitish travellers came
from Galaad, and their camels were heavily loaded with
spices, and resin, and myrrh; and they went to bring
them to Egypt.
26 And Judas said to his brethren, What profit is it if we
slay our brother, and conceal his blood? 27 Come, let us
sell him to these Ismaelites, but let not our hands be upon
him, because he is our brother and our flesh; and his
brethren hearkened. 28 And the men, the merchants
of Madian, went by, and they drew and lifted Joseph
out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ismaelites for
twenty pieces of gold; and they brought Joseph down
into Egypt.

39:1 / 39:1 And Joseph was brought down to Egypt;
and Petephres the eunuch of Pharao, the captain of
the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hands of
the Ismaelites, who brought him down thither.

There is no contradiction at all but we can look at different possibilities.

1. The Ismaelites were a race and Madian traded or were "merchants." The text clearly calls them “Ismaelites” AND “Merchants of Madian”. This particular group of Ismaelites in Madian is also spoken of in the book of Judges Chapters 6, 7, and 8. The names were interchangeable for them. Notice in Judges 88:22 And the men of Israel said to Gedeon, Rule, my lord, over us, both thou, and thy son, and thy son's son; for thou hast saved us out of the hand of Madiam. 23 And Gedeon said to them, I will not rule, and my son shall not rule among you; the Lord shall rule over you. 24 And Gedeon said to them, I will make a request of you, and do ye give me every man an earring out of his spoils: for they had golden earrings, for they were Ismaelites.
It is possible that there were many travelers from Madian
(some not being Ismaelites) traveling in what we would
call a modern day “wagon train.” Some merchants of Madian
got to Joseph first and then turned around and sold
Joseph to the other travelers that were Ismaelites.

So even if the merchants of Madian sold Joseph to the Ismaelites and then the Ismaelites turned around and sold Joseph in Egypt, there is no contradiction.

see: http://biblehistoryevi.freeforumsite.co ... out30.html

Who killed Goliath?

Some skeptics point out that there is a contradiction in the Bible about who killed Goliath. Admittedly, there is an error made even in the Septuagint which is the Oldest Old Testament text we have today that contains books other then the Torah. However, when one reads each text, it is easy to see that a simpl copyist error was made and it can be shown to be corrected.
I prefer to use the LXX for this lesson.

Here are the verses:

1 Samuel 17:
4 And there went forth a mighty man out of the army of the Philistines, Goliath, by name, out of Geth, his height was four cubits and a span. ** 5 And he had a helmet upon his head, and he wore a breastplate of chain armour; and the weight of his breastplate was five thousand shekels of brass and iron. 6 And greaves of grass were upon his legs, and a brazen target was between his shoulders. 7 And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam, and the spear's head was formed of six hundred shekels of iron; and his armour-bearer went before him. 8 And he stood and cried to the army of Israel, and said to them, Why are ye come forth to set yourselves in battle array against us? Am not I a Philistine, and ye He brews of Saul? Choose for yourselves a man, and let him come down to me. 9 And if he shall be able to fight against me, and shall smite me, then will we be your servants: but if I should prevail and smite him, ye shall be our servants, and serve us. 10 And the Philistine said, Behold, I have defied the armies of Israel this very day: give me a man, and we will both of us fight in single combat.
Vs. 12-31 are not found in the LXX but are in the Masoretic Text.

1 Samuel 21: 7 And there was there on that day one of Saul's servants detained before the Lord, and his name was Doec the Syrian, tending the mules of Saul. 8 And David said to Abimelech, See if there is here under thy hand spear or sword, for I have not brought in my hand my sword or my weapons, for the word of the king was urgent. 9 And the priest said, Behold the sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou smotest in the valley of Ela; and it is wrapt in a cloth: if thou wilt take it, take it for thyself, for there is no other except it here. And David said, Behold, there is none like it; give it me.


1 Samuel 22: 9 And Doec the Syrian who was over the mules of Saul answered and said, I saw the son of Jessae as he came to Nomba to Abimelech son of Achitob the priest. 10 And the priest enquired of God for him, and gave him provision, and gave him the sword of Goliath the Philistine.

2 Samuel 21: 15 And there was yet war between the Philistines and Israel: and David went down and his servants with him, and they fought with the Philistines, and David went. 16 And Jesbi, who was of the progeny of Rapha, and the head of whose spear was three hundred shekels of brass in weight, who also was girt with a club, even he thought to smite David. 17 And Abessa the son of Saruia helped him and smote the Philistine, and slew him. Then the men of David swore, saying, Thou shalt not any longer go out with us to battle, and thou shalt not quench the lamp of Israel.
18 And after this there was a battle again with the Philistines in Geth: then Sebocha the Astatothite slew Seph of the progeny of Rapha.
19 And there was a battle in Rom with the Philistines; and Eleanan son of Ariorgim the Bethleemite slew Goliath the Gittite; and the staff of his spear was as a weaver's beam. 20 And there was yet a battle in Geth: and there was a man of stature, and the fingers of his hands and the toes of his feet were six on each, four and twenty in number: and he also was born to Rapha. 21 And he defied Israel, and Jonathan son of Semei brother of David, smote him.
22 These four were born descendants of the giants in Geth, the family of Rapha; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

1 Chronicles 20: 4 And it came to pass afterward that there was again war with the Philistines in Gazer: then Sobochai the Sosathite smote Saphut of the sons of the giants, and laid him low.
5 And there was war again with the Philistines; and Eleanan the son of Jair smote Lachmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, and the wood of his spear was as a weavers' beam.
6 And there was again war in Geth, and there was a man of extraordinary size, and his fingers and toes were six on each hand and foot, four and twenty; and he was descended from the giants. 7 And he defied Israel, and Jonathan the son of Samaa the brother of David slew him. 8 These were born to Rapha in Geth; all four were giants, and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.


Now when reading the above verses, it is obvious that David killed Goliath and this was before he became king. The Priests, when delivering the sword of Goliath to David confirm that David killed Goliath with that sword. The latter battle occurred after David became king. This is when the second Giant was killed. 1 Chronicles corrects the copyist's mistake by telling the exact story using the same names but has correctly added
"Lachmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite"
There are different giants listed that decended from "Rapha." All but one of them are named. They are: Goliath, his brotehr Lachmi, Jesbi, Seph, a giant with six fingers and toes, Saphut.
Given that the time frame is different, one can see that throughout time, once copyist error continued until now, but one can also see the full story given in 1 Chronicles along with the other texts to show that David killed Goliath, and his Eleanan killed "Lachme" the brother of Goliath.

** The LXX agrees with the Dead Sea Scrolls as well as Josephus with the height of Goliath which is roughly 6'8" to 6'9" instead of the traditional 10 feet tall Goliath of the Masoretic Text.