Evidence for God from Science

Shoot the messenger? Naw, that's counterproductive. I'll strap a bomb on him and deliver him right back to his master.

Kurieuo wrote:Anyone read Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men? I've heard it deals with such phenomena really well, and have it here ready to read, but haven't gotten to this book yet.

colors wrote:if it's a good book let me know...i'll get it.

I'm half way through it, and I'd recommend it. Only it may not be a good idea to read the RUFO chapter late at night all alone—got me a little freaked.

Kurieuo.

It is highy improbable for life to exist anywhere else, though not impossible. The Earth is such a unique environment, and in such an ideal place in an ideal galaxy, that these conditions are not likely to exist elsewhere. I know that this is contrary to what Sagan and some other cosmologists postulated, that the universe is teeming with life.

I can post the scientific references that prove my point if anyone is interested.

Yes please. But don't forget that if God wanted more life, nothing could really stop Him from making more.

Sorry I took so long, but it is a rather lengthy reply. I agree, Mastermind, that God can choose to put life anywhere if He so desires, and I'm by no means suggesting that it's 100% impossible for life to exist elsewhere, just statistically difficult.

This will have to be a 2-part response, due to my time constraints. Here is the first part.

The evidence presented here is compressed from an interview with Jay Wesley Richards, PhD in philosophy, and Guillermo Gonzalez, PhD in astronomy, co-authors of the book "The Priveleged Planet".

In order to have life, you need water, but that is not enough, you also need other essential elements. Humans need 26, bacteria around 16. Intermediate life-forms are somewhere in between. This infers you need the right amounts and forms of these chemical elements. To clarify why carbon-based life-forms are taken more or less as a given, you can't get any other atoms to stick together in the necessary quantity or complexity to give you large enough molecules. Also, water dissolves more chemicals than any other liquid known. There are about 6 properties unique to each of water and carbon that makes it optimal for life. Life is also dependant on the geophysical and meteorological processes of the planet. This means you don't only need the right ingredients, but also the right environment.

With trillions of stars and potentially trillions of planets out in the universe, the mathematical odds for life elsewhere must be pretty good, right? That is not a good assumption. There is only a relatively small zone in the universe which is friendly to habitable planets. There are several places in the universe which are star-dense, such as globular clusters. These are etremely unlikely to have a life-friendly environment, because of their age. They are among the oldest things in our galaxy, and therefore have a lack of the heavy elements needed for life, and consist mainly of hydrogen and helium. Globular clusters are also to dense with stars to allow stable circular orbits, which means elliptical orbits are most likely, which in turn means the temperature extremes are to different for life.

There are 3 basic types of galaxies, spiral, elliptical and irregular. Spiral galaxies are the only type likely to be life-friendly, since elliptical galaxies have the stars in that galaxy going too close to the black hole in the centre of every galaxy, as well as lacking the heavy elements needed for life. Irregular galaxies are unstable, with multiple supernovas visible at any one time, which would destroy any possibility for friendly zones or stable orbits. Gamma ray bursts, even more lethal than supernovas, are also more prevalent there.

Our galaxy, the spiral type, has several properties that makes it possible for friendly zones to exist. The friendly zone is relatively far from the centre, where a massive black hole is releasing all sorts of energy unfriendly to life, like gamma rays, x-rays and particle radiation. There are also more supernovas near the nucleus. New star formation, which is also dangerous to life, takes place in the spiral arms. The outer region of the spiral lacks the heavy elements needed to support life. Our galaxy is also a "thin" disk, causing our sun to be in a stable circular orbit around the nucleus. Earth is neatly positioned between spiral arms, and far enough from the nucleus, in a life-friendly zone.

Part 2 to follow...

The probability can be ignored if God is involved though, since it will always be 100%.

Sure, but all I'm trying to illustrate is that God put us in exactly the right place for life to flourish. It's not up to me to say if he created other life in other places, that is up to Him. I'm just presenting the circumstances under which biological life exists, and whether it exists in abundance anywhere else in the universe. If my posts in that regard serves no purpose, I will discontinue.

Continue please, it may not serve theists any purpose, but it is good ammo vs atheists.

Actually, I shouldn't say it serves theists no purpose. What I meant is that if God wanted to make aliens, it's not really relevant.

I understand where you are coming from, and for me as a Christian the benefits of discussions like these are:
1. It's a strong weapon in doing God's work, ie overcoming objections when talking to atheists and agnostics,
2. It satisifies my natural curiosity, and allows me to love God with my whole body, spirit and mind.

I'm sure we all believe, just in different ways, since all of us are unique beings and therefore have unique relationships, also with God.

I will post the second part later.

Mastermind wrote:Continue please, it may not serve theists any purpose, but it is good ammo vs atheists.

Hello out there, I love Alien inteligance.

Astrotheology (the nature of celestial residents and God) is as old as the telescope at least.
What isnt discussed enough of this topic is how they would aproach us and
how we will approach others in the future who are not yet able to fly to other stars, as we can't now.
How would they speak from thunder clap morse code to differant sorts
of natural telepathy of differant basic life types from plants to man to aliens.
Would it have a good cop bad cop approach for misunderstandings, so during an unnice contact you could say its my slightly not so good bad cop brother as an exscuse.
(perhaps the bad cop brother could really exist and live in a smaller size energysupply type of ecology such as like our lakes/springs of sulphur from volcanoes instead of em light supply from our star sun.)
email direct if you wish graysgrace@surefish.co.uk
John Gooch

Assuming they would want to approach us, of course(If I was them I would steer clear of Earth but that's just me ). I don't think spirits and beings outside our universe (God, angels, demons, etc.) should fall under the same cathegory aliens within our universe (IE. Greys, Klingons ) do. That said, I don't rule out the possibility of ancient civilisations having communicated with them. We have over 40 000 years of human history to account for, history of which we know nothing. As far as I can tell, humanity started building huge monuments out of nowhere. I remember seeing a show about underwater cities and given those cities' geographical location, they must be really old. For example, these structures(which atheists try to pass off as "natural"):
http://www.subversiveelement.com/Japans ... amids.html

Personally I think it would be interesting to hold a conversation with aliens. Perhaps they too know of God and it has the potential to affirm our faith in such a way that it would make an atheist tremble in fear.

Mastermind wrote: 2: Worm holes, which would consist of naturally formed space bending routes. I highly doubt they are anything more than theory, for two reasons: First, God obviously placed safeguards on the universe against erratic gravitational forces. Black holes appear to be contained within their own pocket of space/time, preventing paradoxes like an infinite gravitational force from instantly sucking in the entire universe.

the universe is way to big for this to happen unless u get about a trillion solar masses to colaps

Mastermind wrote:Continue please, it may not serve theists any purpose, but it is good ammo vs atheists.

Rupert Sheldrake biologist has done many experiments showing that
couples can sence quite often when their partner is staring at them
from behind.

So how could the SETI project use this experimental data in their
comms effert with ET?
Well I think it would be very personal as it is in religion, but in anycase
it must involve trust, adaptability and a williness to have the body
touched or changed without retreating back to mans normality.
The Aliens would like Gods beings be able to feel not so concerned
about material things, just as we are due to our tech and mass production cheapness/availabilty.
John Gooch

You're assuming aliens are capable psionics. I'm not so certain about that.