Evidence for God from Science

I do not believe that animals are egual to us.

As far as scriptures in the begining of the bible God clearly made us vegetarians. It was sin that made us omnivoures.

God even came down from heaven to become the ultimate sacrafice because man was suppose to hate killing animals so much that he would think twice about sinning because he knew an animal would pay for what he had done.

Obviousley that was not the case so God came down here to pay for our sins so we would not have to kill animals anymore. So I think God does care about animals.

God made man in his image but he also was the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. There is a respect we are lacking that I believe God would like us to have.

As far as there being more important issues. We can care about many things at one time,but many sorrows in the world are beyond our reach we can only do what we can.

The reason for my ranting as you put it in so many words is that some of you say things like I dont believe its that bad or God is not concerned with animals and then in the next breath I see yes animals are suffering but...

That is confusing make up your mind . Just say you dont care were your meat comes from and Ill be on my way. But I will cry all the way home.

Even God himself was sorry that he made us. We are a big disapointment to God in our sin nature .

I am sorry if I seem cold and I do not think that animals are better or worse then us. To me pain is pain sorrow is sorrow. I just think that so many people fight for the oppressed humans but not the animals and we could be doing so much more without lifting a finger (or a fork) to alleviate just a little suffering after all isn't that what jesus would do if he were here.

Jesus was the ultimate man there could be not better example of what a man should be.

Thanks

When you are invited into a persons home or asked to house-sit do you begin by ransacking the fridge, destroying all the electronics, and furniture, and basically disrespecting and taking advantage of such hospitality and/or position of responsibility?

If you asked me to house sit would it be ok if I took all the chemicals from beneath your sink and spilled it all into your fish tanks and flower gardens, thus killing your precious orchids and koi?

Can I take you pet hamsters, place them into lightbulb containers and ship them off to my nephew to feed to his snakes?

Can I set up a camp fire in your bedroom and cause soot to collect on the walls and on the ceiling. Then tear a hole in the roof to allow the smoke to escape?

Hmmm.

victoria brady wrote:I do not believe that animals are egual to us.

As far as scriptures in the begining of the bible God clearly made us vegetarians. It was sin that made us omnivoures.

God even came down from heaven to become the ultimate sacrafice because man was suppose to hate killing animals so much that he would think twice about sinning because he knew an animal would pay for what he had done.

Obviousley that was not the case so God came down here to pay for our sins so we would not have to kill animals anymore. So I think God does care about animals.

God made man in his image but he also was the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. There is a respect we are lacking that I believe God would like us to have.

As far as there being more important issues. We can care about many things at one time,but many sorrows in the world are beyond our reach we can only do what we can.

The reason for my ranting as you put it in so many words is that some of you say things like I dont believe its that bad or God is not concerned with animals and then in the next breath I see yes animals are suffering but...

That is confusing make up your mind . Just say you dont care were your meat comes from and Ill be on my way. But I will cry all the way home.

Even God himself was sorry that he made us. We are a big disapointment to God in our sin nature .

I am sorry if I seem cold and I do not think that animals are better or worse then us. To me pain is pain sorrow is sorrow. I just think that so many people fight for the oppressed humans but not the animals and we could be doing so much more without lifting a finger (or a fork) to alleviate just a little suffering after all isn't that what jesus would do if he were here.

Jesus was the ultimate man there could be not better example of what a man should be.

Thanks

Victoria,

Great answers.

I agree with you that humans are above animals in terms of value and worth. That does not justify abuse however.

I disagree that vegetarianism was the original plan. Frankly, I think we were created omnivores. That is really not an important point to make in this context however, as regardless of how one views how we got here, we are here and we are omnivores presently.

I don't think I buy into the idea that animal life was a primary factor in Christ's sacrifice in order to suspend the sacrificial system. I suppose you could argue it was part of it and certainly God does care for his creation including animals. I'm not aware of any Scripture that puts an emphasis on Christ's sacrifice being to release animals from that use. If you're aware of any please post them.

God cares about animals. No question. He placed us as stewards to care for this creation, not exploit it. I think that is your strongest argument and it is a good one.

Frankly I, like most people, don't give much thought to how food gets to my table. As long as it is in the supermarket, I'm happy.

I'm aware in our culture, since we have moved in the last century from primarily an agricultural society to an industrial and now an informational society, that we are removed from the daily awareness of what is involved in providing that food. Part of the process of industrialization has spilled over to agriculture and animals are provided in a manner that focuses on cost and efficiency. Since it is outside out normal views and experiences it is easy to see how that process could be out of balance and there is good reason to call for informing people and I can see how my passivity in this regard is contibuting to the situation.

There is a philosophy out there, espoused by radical factions such as PETA that frankly offends me and is based on the completely wrong foundation that animals are even better than humans.

One has only to focus on how animals treat each other in the wild to refute that argument, aside from the Scriptural principles already referred to earlier.

You've piqued my thinking in this regard and I thank you for that.

I will give some direct thought and consideration to this and what my response as a Christian should be.

Bart

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:When you are invited into a persons home or asked to house-sit do you begin by ransacking the fridge, destroying all the electronics, and furniture, and basically disrespecting and taking advantage of such hospitality and/or position of responsibility?

If you asked me to house sit would it be ok if I took all the chemicals from beneath your sink and spilled it all into your fish tanks and flower gardens, thus killing your precious orchids and koi?

Can I take you pet hamsters, place them into lightbulb containers and ship them off to my nephew to feed to his snakes?

Can I set up a camp fire in your bedroom and cause soot to collect on the walls and on the ceiling. Then tear a hole in the roof to allow the smoke to escape?

Hmmm.

Remind me not to invite you to my house .....

You're right however. Stewardship does not justify abuse.

Canuckster1127 wrote: Remind me not to invite you to my house .....

You're right however. Stewardship does not justify abuse.

lol

I of course, am a very well manored guest.
=)

P.S.
Victoria, although I agree that animals deserve better treatment, I must personally disagree that putting down the fork is the solution. I cannot imagine a diet lacking in meat, that would be hell for me.

Playing the Devil's Advocate, one thing to consider; these animals are dependant on us for survival and would not exist if not for our need for them as food. Human beings are not the only one's who exploit other organisms, click here to learn more.

As far as scriptures in the begining of the bible God clearly made us vegetarians. It was sin that made us omnivoures.

Even though I believe in an older earth, I also do believe God originally created man and animals to be vegan Gen. 1: 29, 30. I too do not promote animals over humans. But when our day of judgement comes, we will be judged on how we handled the environment, Rev. 11:18.

Just an fyi to everyone I would like to quote Hosea 4:2..

2. There is cursing, lying, murder, stealing, and committing adultery; they break boundaries, and bloodshed causes bloodshed.

3. Therefore the land will mourn, and everyone who dwells therein will waste away. all living things in her, even the animals of the field and the birds of the sky; yes, the fish of the sea also die.

Here is scripture that tells us what Yahweh says we can and cannot eat...

Levi 11:3 (NKJV) `Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves [and] chewing the cud--that you may eat. 4 `Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 `the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, [is] unclean to you; 6 `the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, [is] unclean to you; 7 `and the swine , though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, [is] unclean to you. 8 `Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They [are] unclean to you. 9 `These you may eat of all that [are] in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers--that you may eat. 10 `But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which [is] in the water, they [are] an abomination to you. 11 `They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 `Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales--that [shall] [be] an abomination to you. 13 `And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, 14 `the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15 `every raven after its kind, 16 `the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17 `the little owl, the fisher owl, and the screech owl; 18 `the white owl, the jackdaw, and the carrion vulture; 19 `the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat. 20 `All flying insects that creep on [all] fours [shall] [be] an abomination to you. 21 `Yet these you may eat of every flying insect that creeps on [all] fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22 `These you may eat: the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23 `But all [other] flying insects which have four feet [shall] [be] an abomination to you

There is nothing here that says we can only eat vegietables.

According to our Lord, we can eat everything as long as it is not on the UNCLEAN list. He is our creator and he knows what is best for us. If he didn't want us to eat certain things, then it will be in his word.

Thank you so so so much for your replies. I was a little nervous about seeing them. But God has given me much courage.

I completley understand what all of you are saying. I too have eaten meat all my life.

It is not as easy subject to talk about. I mean lets face it christian don't do drugs or drink what pleasure is there left(LOL). Meat taste good. I know my husband wishes I would cook the way I used to. But change is not always a bad thing you just have to experiment. I miss my boars head hot dogs with cole slaw. My porter house steak with home made potatoe salad(with eggs of course) barbacue ribs with corn on the cob and home made baked beans.

I just wanted to let you know I'm not a pansy I know how to eat and your probably all hungry now I know I am.

I will not be having any of those delicious meals tonight but I have probably eaten more then some people will ever know.

I'm learning new ways tho I won't lie like some people there is a big diffrence. But I keep pressing on to discover new and diffrent ways. For me its worth it, I pray someday it will be for you also.


Thank you so much God bless my family

vicky

There is nothing here that says we can only eat vegietables.

Howdy, just for clarification, I never said that. I'm also a meat eater and will probably stay that way the rest of my life. HOWEVER, being cruel to animals, as stated by Victoria comes with consequences to the believer. And some of the practices being done today in our farms and the environment are questionable and could fall under judgement. So be careful.. When I was a younger lad I wasn't very nice to animals. When I die, I'm going to have to answer for that... And I'm probably going to be turned into swiss cheeze for it.

Also be careful when talking to unbelievers about this subject. It's a hot topic out there any many people think Christians out there are stupid about it. We don't worship the creation by the creator, but we still need to steward God's planet. Would you want someone to come into your house and ruin your funiture and torture your animals? So don't do it to God's creatures as well.

G -

And some people refuse to be Christians because of this as well..... Because they think we don't care. After all Jesus is coming back right? So who cares...

Yeshua's follower wrote:Here is scripture that tells us what Yahweh says we can and cannot eat...

Levi 11:3 (NKJV) `Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves [and] chewing the cud--that you may eat. 4 `Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 `the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, [is] unclean to you; 6 `the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, [is] unclean to you; 7 `and the swine , though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, [is] unclean to you. 8 `Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They [are] unclean to you. 9 `These you may eat of all that [are] in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers--that you may eat. 10 `But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which [is] in the water, they [are] an abomination to you. 11 `They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 `Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales--that [shall] [be] an abomination to you. 13 `And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, 14 `the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15 `every raven after its kind, 16 `the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17 `the little owl, the fisher owl, and the screech owl; 18 `the white owl, the jackdaw, and the carrion vulture; 19 `the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat. 20 `All flying insects that creep on [all] fours [shall] [be] an abomination to you. 21 `Yet these you may eat of every flying insect that creeps on [all] fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22 `These you may eat: the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23 `But all [other] flying insects which have four feet [shall] [be] an abomination to you

There is nothing here that says we can only eat vegietables.

According to our Lord, we can eat everything as long as it is not on the UNCLEAN list. He is our creator and he knows what is best for us. If he didn't want us to eat certain things, then it will be in his word.

I believe that Levitical Scripture also ended when God Told Peter to eat unclean things...

1 Timothy 4:1-5
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."

puritan lad wrote:1 Timothy 4:1-5
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."

Yup, I thought of that verse as well.

The issue as I see it isn't forbiding meat on the basis of levitical law or as was a common issue at the time of writing, offering to idols.

There is a legitimate issue in terms of humanity to animals as a stewardship issue to not foment abuse.

I'm not certain as to what the best way to address that is. If someone wants to abstain from meat, or any other food as their personal choice, that's certainly their perogative as long as they don't seek to legalistically apply that standard to others. I don't agree with that approach or decision but there is freedom under Christ to choose what you want to eat or not eat.

In the meantime, with all respect to any of differing opinions, my philosophy remains,

"If it oinks or moos .... It Bar-B-Ques."

For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."

True to the person that is eating it with thanksgiving, however, what about people that selfishly torture God's creatures (fill them with hormones or place them in 2 x 2 cells with 12 other animals) for a profit? To be honest with you I really don't know how God is going to judge this. I'm not God and I don't always know his ways. My only concern with this is CAUTION. Be careful.

Keep in mind, when animals are kept in these small enclosures they produce stress hormones, which people then eat, which can cause problems for God's people as well.

Now I'm not saying that ALL farmers are guilty of this. Perhaps we could boycott the ones that do and reward the ones don't. That's about it...

G -

Contrary to modern scare tactics and junk science, hormones and genetic engineering are some the best things to ever happen to food. That, however, is another debate and has nothing to do with the ethics of eating meat.

My motto matches a bumper sticker I used to have...

"I Love Animals...They're delicious!!!"