Evidence for God from Science

Judas didn't believe because it was not granted to Him by the Father to believe. It was not granted to Him to believe because He was not one of His sheep. He was not one of His sheep for the same reasons the Pharisees were not . . . he was an evil man, bent toward himself. I suppose I could take a Calvinist view and just say that he was predestined not to believe

So, take it how you will, the answer is the same in all camps. Judas didn't believe because he was not one of the sheep who hear the voice of the Shepherd. You can say that means he wasn't predestined to salvation, and I'll say that God didn't open his heart so that he could understand for the simple reason that he had already rejected what revelation had already been given to him. But, that goes into a discussion on election and predestination, doesn't it?

As an aside, the Pharisees saw the miracles of Jesus, even His raising Lazarus from the dead, and they never believed . . . I don't see why Judas should be any different. In fact, the Pharisees should have believed all the more, because they knew the Messianic prophecies and should have been able to immediately identify Him. But, that's the point . . . they rejected what God had said, and therefore, they were not of the fold. Thus, they could not believe because God did not open their hearts.

Good questions, and I am glad you asked. I'd been meaning to look up whether or not Judas believed before and I'd never had a reason to, so thanks much. It was a good study

God bless

Jac3510 wrote:Judas didn't believe because it was not granted to Him by the Father to believe. It was not granted to Him to believe because He was not one of His sheep. He was not one of His sheep for the same reasons the Pharisees were not . . . he was an evil man, bent toward himself. I suppose I could take a Calvinist view and just say that he was predestined not to believe

Gasp!

LOL

I'm not a heretic, August. Just misunderstood . . . Seriously, the answer is objective. He didn't believe because God didn't enable him to. So, what does that mean? It means one thing to Calvinists and another thing to me and those in my camp. No big deal. We can all agree on the statement itself, and its logical predicate, which is that Judas didn't believe.

A related question:

Simon Magus believed (Acts 8:13). Was he saved?

The Bible says he believed. Yes, he was saved.

John 2:11 says: "“This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him”

Let me throw this in. When it says His disciples believed in him what does that mean? What did they believe? Could it be possible that they just believed like Nicodemus at this point that He was a teacher from God? Could it be that they didn't understand the whole truth at this point, which was that Jesus would be the suffering Messiah. There are a few passages when He plainly tells them what is going to happen to them and they don't undersatnd His words.

Just a thought.

Before anyone gets too much further with this thread, please allow me to post this little warning for others.








We now continue with our regularly scheduled lines of reasoning ....

Canuckster1127 wrote:Before anyone gets too much further with this thread, please allow me to post this little warning for others.



We now continue with our regularly scheduled lines of reasoning ....

Jac3510 wrote:The Bible says he believed. Yes, he was saved.

Well, at least you are consistent.

I would like to know your interpretation of Peter's rebuke of Simon in Acts 8:20-23, which occurred after Simon believed.

"But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”"

If what you say is true, then why did Simon need to repent? Why did he need forgiveness? How is it that he was still bound by iniquity? What did Peter mean when he said that "Your money perish with you". If he was talking about physical death, then was that to be avoided by repenting?

Just curious...

FFC wrote:Let me throw this in. When it says His disciples believed in him what does that mean? What did they believe? Could it be possible that they just believed like Nicodemus at this point that He was a teacher from God? Could it be that they didn't understand the whole truth at this point, which was that Jesus would be the suffering Messiah. There are a few passages when He plainly tells them what is going to happen to them and they don't undersatnd His words.

I can see why you might bring this up, FFC, but I wouldn't go with this line of reasoning on a technical reason. The words "believe in" in John (pisteuw eis in all its forms) is the term that John uses consistently to describe salvic belief. So, when John says that Jesus disciples "believed in Him," I would take that as saving faith.

Puritan Lad wrote:Well, at least you are consistent.

I would like to know your interpretation of Peter's rebuke of Simon in Acts 8:20-23, which occurred after Simon believed.

"But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”"

If what you say is true, then why did Simon need to repent? Why did he need forgiveness? How is it that he was still bound by iniquity? What did Peter mean when he said that "Your money perish with you". If he was talking about physical death, then was that to be avoided by repenting?

Just because we are saved doesn't mean we don't sin, and when we sin, we have to be forgiven of those sins . . . here's the way I look at it (which, I don't suppose, is very different from the way you look at it): when we are saved, we are born in Christ. Thus, positionally, we are absolutely saved. However, on a day to day basis, our fellowship with God may or may not be where it needs to be. When we sin, we break fellowship with God, and we must confess and repent to bring that relationship back to a right standing.

Now, Simon had thought that he could buy this "magic" power he saw the apostles demonstrating. This isn't a matter of Simon wanting the indwelling of the HS to help him in his Christian life. He wanted to be able to do the kind of things that Peter could do. Thus, he demonstrated his greed, covetness, etc. These are all sin, and Peter rebuked him for these. He told him to repent. Until that happened, he would be a miserable man, being bitter and "bound by iniquity." The iniquity here is his greed. Peter was telling him to give that to God.

And you are right about perishing referring to physical death. It is a common principle in Scripture that sins leads to death in the physical sense. If Simon didn't repent, he was in danger of dying.

ok, I'm not gonna read 2 pages of post, but here's my 2 cents:

If Judas did not betray Jesus, then Jesus may not have been captured and thrown on the cross, fullfilling his prophecy. maybe God made Judas to betray Jesus, so that in the long run it would benifit all man (later John 3:16)

so maybe he is in heaven

Prov 16:1
1 The preparations of the heart belong to man,
But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.

9 A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps.


If God knows the hearts of men, which other scripture seems to indicate, then from these verse above, Judas prepared his own heart, but God direced his steps to bring about His will. So if this interpretation is correct, he would not be in Heaven. That is of course dependent on what Judas beleived. But I do not think it ever states that he believed and trusted Christ for salvation.