Lack wrote:Lust outside of marriage is a sin, wouldn't you agree? I
Actually, because of your second-last post, I've actually come to understand the meaning of lust slightly different (if it wasn't obvious in my last post). Before, I always associated lust with sexual desire, although I knew it can be used in reference to other things... I though these other things were taking the meaning of "lust" out of context.
I do not think the lust (intense desire) to release ones urges through masturbation, "without the sexual mental desires," is a sin. I think masturbation can actually be used for righteousness, as a useful tool to re-focus and get beyond and tame our sexual desires. Sexual desire is not simply mental processes, but also physical. And I believe the mental can be tamed by the mental, but the physical may need help by the physical. Perhaps the way to go, would be to disinguish the physical lust for release from the mental lust for sex.
And before I can really answer your question above, I think a clear definition should be attached to "lust." I'm simply thinking of lust as the dictionary portrays it.
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Lust outside of marriage is a sin, wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't call it lust (because of these very connotations ) within marriage--I would just call it healthy desire, even if it feels similar.
yes...i was thinking in referance to single men and women in my first post.
I think the three of us are on the same wavelength, it's just over word meanings. The dictionary definition doesn't show the connotations, especially in a Biblical context--when do you see lust in the Bible mentioned as a good thing? In fact, it's mentioned alongside other sins in lists aimed not just at single people. I would then redefine lust as "improper desire".
Back to topic, though, I have found that giving in to masturbation actually fuels the desire for more of it, and for sex outside of marriage, and for images and things inside my head. While it would be useful in the short-term for avoiding actual sex, it's not a sustainable strategy. It's like any medical drug: you take it when you're sick, but if you keep taking it when you're well, you have a problem with addiction. I think it's safe to say, then, that masturbation is a sin insofar as it's an addiction and/or has negative side-effects, and a "good thing" only insofar as it keeps you from sex outside of marriage. But as I said above, this doesn't jive for long, at least not for me. Perhaps others masturbate occasionally for release without being controlled by it. I don't think that's the case for most men, though.
This may be tough for you two to see, though, being married and all, but just ask some of the tens of thousands of posters at the xxxchurch.com forums.
I don't know if the question whether masturbation is a sin is the right question. As has been shown in this post, it is definitely one of those shady areas, like for example smoking. Smoking destroys the body, the temple of God, and one can get addicted to it. If one is addicted to something we would have to say it is a sin. Also, if one destroys the temple of God we would also have to say that is a sin. Well what if i smoke one cigaret a month? What about cigars? or pot?
The questions will never end. There will always be another situation where people will disagree.
I think the better question is "Should I masturbate or not?" The answer I believe is NO.
Everyone agrees that lusting after a woman/man is a sin. Sexual fantasies, imagining lustfully that you are having sex with a woman/man who is not your wife/husband is a sin.
Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
So even though it is possible to masturbate without lusting, lustful thoughts are bound to enter your mind. If not one time then the next. You are putting yourself in a very tough situation and the devil loves that.
Secondly, its not what God intended. If it was, it would be mentioned in the bible. Everything else that God wants from us is mentioned. It is clear that sexual pleasures are to be with your marriage partner and no one else, not even yourself. This is God's original design. There are many verses that allude to this. If you need some references ask me and i will look for them
Thirdly, it is possible to overcome it. With the power of holy spirit, it is possible to control your sexual erge and not need to masturbate. This is clearly a better way to go. To be freed from the desire of masturbation is what we should be looking for. Not on how to do it righteously. For advice on how overcoming it works, also email me or ask me and I will post it.
Finally, i really couldn't imagine Jesus doing it. Nor could I imagine any of the apostles. It clearly has "sinful" written all over it. God commands "Be holy, because I am holy" and Jesus commands "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". I don't think masturbation is perfection. I think being free from such desires is perfection.
Do not think that God design our body for sexual justification.
Perhaps God design our body in a way that is pure, but our surrounding environment corrupted the body.
Perhaps God design a body in a way to test us, and those who is able to withstand the temptation and test deserves higher level of fulfillment in life?
Because if you are able to conquer that temptation, when evil tempts you, your purity will help you conquer that darkness.
Perhaps the reward is on a spiritual level, and offer you the rights to enjoy a truthful relationship with your true love.
Not by means of sexual temptation and complication. Without the sins and wrongfulness attached to the relationship.
The relationship between you and your beloved one will last and base on a truthful feeling. Thus your family can remain a family, your child can remain as a happy child with both Farther and Mother.
Personally I do masturbate and I find that it is the only way to satisfy sexual desires in a non-harmful way.
I think it is okay to masturbate and have a visual image as long as that image is not lustful as what Kurieuo said about desires that are unnatural-such as being with two women or Homosexual fantasies.
People do have different levels of sexual urges, and perhaps some people can masurbate without fantasising about someone and some people dont need to masturbate at all.
Unfortunately all Christians never seem to agree on the subject! Saying that, from the bible, masturbation is definitely a sin.
Masturbation is a sin because a person consents in their own heart to take sexual gratification from impure thoughts. It is sinful to indulge in the sexual pleasure that is derived from the satisfaction of using one's imagination to FIXATE upon obscene images, or obscene actions, or forbidden sex. Lustfully fixating upon genitals, or sexual acts, is idolatry. This is called: the worship of obscenities. This is the sin of those addicted to pornography. That's often a "guy" thing. Alternatively, taking delight in the lust of another, or consummating a fantasy of forbidden sexual romance, is the sin of adultery in the heart. That's often a "girl" thing. The act of masturbation is an outward act that confirms that one's heart and mind has consented to an inward act of impurity. Only by consenting to an imagined act of impurity can one attain orgasm. To attain sexual release, a person's will consents to LOVE something that is sexually impure.
Additionally, there have been figures from the bible who have "spilled their seed" who God has punished. This wasn't even masturbation though! This was the "pulling out" method after sex. This shows how you cannot "spill your seed" anywhere outside of the vagina. It is simply impure and taking advantage of the body has given to us.
People who do masturbate are not to be "cast out the community" however. We love the people ... just hate the sin.
FrAndrew wrote:Additionally, there have been figures from the bible who have "spilled their seed" who God has punished. This wasn't even masturbation though! This was the "pulling out" method after sex. This shows how you cannot "spill your seed" anywhere outside of the vagina. It is simply impure and taking advantage of the body has given to us.
*ahem* I'm inclined to believe Onan was condemned for his disrespect towards his father and dead brother, not for "spilling his seed." It is written that he continually chose to do such an act in order to keep from producing offspring for his brother. (Genesis 38:8-10)
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Lusting is a sin. Masturbation tends to go hand in hand with lust so that probably points it towards being sinful. You are also only doing something for yourself, it has no gain for anybody else other than yourself...which is not the attitude a christian should have. Also if your unsure if something is a sin, and its not essential...just don't do it! why risk it being a sin and disappointing God? anyway they were just my thoughts..although im not 100% positive thats just what I think.
two_phat wrote:Lusting is a sin. Masturbation tends to go hand in hand with lust so that probably points it towards being sinful. You are also only doing something for yourself, it has no gain for anybody else other than yourself...which is not the attitude a christian should have. Also if your unsure if something is a sin, and its not essential...just don't do it! why risk it being a sin and disappointing God? anyway they were just my thoughts..although im not 100% positive thats just what I think.
One can masturbate without lust. Furthermore, masturbation is a wonderful stress reliever and if you're snapping at coworkers and family members because you're stressed, then just go away from them for a bit, get yourself off and voila. A much more relaxed and content person will be there to greet them.
) within marriage--I would just call it healthy desire, even if it feels similar.
