Evidence for God from Science

Then what is the purpose of giving us bodies if we are already not omnipresent nor omniscient? Are you suggesting that our spirits actually have mass, or that they fill a specific and determined volume? If so, are they matter?

Are our spirits of a different nature than God? How do we know one way or the other? What does the bible tell us about the nature of our spirits?

How do we know that spirits are not omnipresent in the absence of bodies? God's spirit is isnt it?


Lots of questions.

Sargon

Sargon wrote:Then what is the purpose of giving us bodies if we are already not omnipresent nor omniscient? Are you suggesting that our spirits actually have mass, or that they fill a specific and determined volume? If so, are they matter?

Are our spirits of a different nature than God? How do we know one way or the other? What does the bible tell us about the nature of our spirits?

How do we know that spirits are not omnipresent in the absence of bodies? God's spirit is isnt it?


Lots of questions.

Sargon

Sargon,

Are you familiar with the concept of attributes of God which are shared with man and consistent of our creation in the image of God and those which are immutable, or present in God alone?

Omnipresence is an attribute of God we do not share in any measure regardless of bodily form or not.

As we've agreed earlier to limit this discussion to the Bible in terms of its authority, you'll need to do more than throw out a concept or question. You'll need to back it up and show how the Bible supports it.

So do you have a Biblical basis for your suggestions or questions?

Regards,

Bart

As we've agreed earlier to limit this discussion to the Bible in terms of its authority, you'll need to do more than throw out a concept or question. You'll need to back it up and show how the Bible supports it.

So do you have a Biblical basis for your suggestions or questions?

Canuckster, I am not trying to preach anything here. Lots of the questions I am asking I alreay have my own opinions and beliefs on, but I am purposefully not answering them. I havent taught anything in this thread so I dont have anything that needs to be backed up by scripture. I am only wondering how these questions are answered by you and other evangelicals. If I begin to try to persuade, rest assured I will use the bible for support.

Are you familiar with the concept of attributes of God which are shared with man and consistent of our creation in the image of God and those which are immutable, or present in God alone?

Omnipresence is an attribute of God we do not share in any measure regardless of bodily form or not.

I am familiar with the concept that man inherited some of God's attributes in the creation, and even more in the fall of Adam. However, I am not aware of any place in the bible that lists which characteristics we share and those we dont share.

Omnipresence. How do we know that we are not omnipresent when out of the body? Wasnt Christ omnipresent before entering into a body of flesh and bones? Do you believe that he was still omnipresent while in the flesh? If so where do we learn that?

Sargon

Christ had an eternal, omnipresent, divine nature as well as a limited human nature. Don't ask me how precisely that is possible as I don't know how it feels. But it's what the Bible teaches.

Why do you think human spirits are omnipresent?
Spirit and body form a unity...

Turgonian wrote:Christ had an eternal, omnipresent, divine nature as well as a limited human nature. Don't ask me how precisely that is possible as I don't know how it feels. But it's what the Bible teaches.

Why do you think human spirits are omnipresent?
Spirit and body form a unity...

spirit, body and soul.

Why do you think human spirits are omnipresent?
Spirit and body form a unity...

I dont. But I also dont believe that God is omnipresent in the same way that you probably do.
I am curious as to what you believe the nature of God's omnipresence is. Is he physically everywhere at once? Mentally? Is it only in influence, like how American culture is everywhere around the globe? I have heard alot of people tell me they believed that God was in everything, that everything was God, including books, cars, and rocks. I dont imagine that is the common view here on this site, but I could be wrong.

I appreciate any responses. I have been debating evangelicals for some time now, and there are some doctrines they have that I dont understand, and I am finding out more and more that they dont either, which is not necessarily a bad thing in all cases.

Christ had an eternal, omnipresent, divine nature as well as a limited human nature. Don't ask me how precisely that is possible as I don't know how it feels. But it's what the Bible teaches.

You see, this dilemma is not one that is irrational or illogical. I believe that Christ may have had some limits on his power inbetween his birth and his death, but after his ressurrection I believe that even in a physical body of flesh and bones he was unfettered by mortal limitations. Didnt he say that he had been given all power in heaven and on earth?

Mat 28:16 ¶ Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

So if Jesus had all power in heaven and in earth, yet had a physical body of flesh and bones at the same time, how was it that he was omnipresent? Certainly when he vanished from the presence of the disciples after walking on the road to Emmaus he was no longer physically there.
Consider this, If Christ(God) knows all things, then he knows exactly what is going on everywhere in the world all the time. And if he is able to influence those events without physically being there(which he should if he were God), then there is no need for him to be physically everywhere at once. Therefore he could still be present with the disciples in Emmaus even after leaving their physical presence.

Or is this just completely unbiblical from your perspective? This time I am actually interjecting some of my own thoughts, instead of asking questions about only your beliefs. Feel free to criticize, but play nice its almost the weekend.

Sargon

Jesus's human nature was just like any other man's. But He also had a divine nature. Two natures, one body. In His human nature, Jesus was not omnipresent. In His divine nature, He was.

I see Jesus as God's Wisdom. The divine Word and Wisdom was incarnated in the flesh, but that didn't mean God lost His Wisdom those 33 years. Jesus's divine nature remained eternal and omnipresent.

'Omnipresent' = being everywhere at once. Not physically, of course, since I don't believe God has a body. God is a spirit, and as such, He can be everywhere all the time. I don't believe there is a 'divine spark' in everything (as pantheists and many New Agers do), but I do believe God is everywhere in the universe.

Turgonian wrote:Jesus's human nature was just like any other man's. But He also had a divine nature. Two natures, one body. In His human nature, Jesus was not omnipresent. In His divine nature, He was.

I see Jesus as God's Wisdom. The divine Word and Wisdom was incarnated in the flesh, but that didn't mean God lost His Wisdom those 33 years. Jesus's divine nature remained eternal and omnipresent.

'Omnipresent' = being everywhere at once. Not physically, of course, since I don't believe God has a body. God is a spirit, and as such, He can be everywhere all the time. I don't believe there is a 'divine spark' in everything (as pantheists and many New Agers do), but I do believe God is everywhere in the universe.

Are Angels not spirits as well Turgy?

'Omnipresent' = being everywhere at once. Not physically, of course, since I don't believe God has a body.

Do you deny that Christ ressurrected with a body of flesh and bones?

Sargon