Soteriology

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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B. W.
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Post by B. W. »

B. W. wrote:We, as Human beings, have a propensity to err of the side of selectivity of picking and choosing what appeals to us. We are all guilty of this. This comes about from a sense to be right and better than others and can lead to self exultation and exclusivist notions which appeal to the carnal senses of the flesh. Until we can look at the whole, we'll continue to argue over the parts.
Turgonian wrote:I'm not saying you're right and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will state that this comes over as a little vague. It sounds a little like something I read by someone on TWeb who was so much into comparative mythology that she kept talking about the universal esoteric patterns one finds in all mythologies, with the big bad exoteric dogmatists as the narrow-minded guys who blinded themselves to the deeper truth. She stuck to that despite all historical/logical evidence to the contrary. So...maybe you're right, but if Scripture teaches something else that you would see as just a piece of the puzzle, I'll stick to that. But I must say I do like your balanced style of writing, and I agree with what you said -- trusting Christ, and then following, is what it ultimately comes down to, I think.
Sorry about the vagueness in what I wrote. I was trying to avoid stepping on theological toes. Let me try to explain it this way so the readers can better understand what I mean. In doing so, please let us stay on topic and not go off in another direction as my examples my temp one to do.

By selectivity I mean how people pick and choose based on how they interpret the bible. It would be much like this, one person notes that the sky is azure blue, another says no, the sky is grey, another notes that at night the sky is black with white dots called stars. They get together and debate the color of the sky: is it blue, grey, black? Another chimes in and says the sky is red in the morning and yellow at sunset. What? It can only be blue, no only grey and never black — etc and etc the people argue. If only they would note that the sky is big and has many colors maybe they would discover that they were viewing the same sky.

In the area of doctrine and theology there are certain truths that the bible clearly declares and Christians agree on — Christ sacrifice but how does one see it? Another example is how one picks certain scriptures at the expense of others. The bible declares that God chose us before the foundation of the world and yet again in other places in the bible God wants us to choose him. If you only read the parts that prove that God chooses, this clouds one's ideology to ignore, or down play, or reinvent the meaning of the scriptures that declare the opposite, that God wants us to choose and believe in him. You can also do this with the scriptures that declare that God offers choice to human beings too. You can take these bible truths to the extreme. This is what I am referring to as “selectivity of picking and choosing what appeals to us.”

You must look at the whole of scripture on bible based topics to come to the truth. Until people do this, selectivity will be the rule. Jesus stated that he was the truth and the way. In John 1:1-18 it states in essence that Jesus revealed God's glory and truth about who God is and what he is like. It is by that standard we should look at the bible — look at Christ and see the nature and character of God revealed; in this one puts together the pieces of the biblical puzzle.

This puzzle should lead one to Christ and not towards bias selectivity. This is one reason God puts a little piece of the puzzle here and a bit more over there so we'll discover the Lord of Glory. If that is the goal, then one can debate intelligently, if not, then you'll be ensnared in a hostility that must be repented of.

Do not get me wrong. There are areas in bible doctrine that are without debate that are foundational and these truths are non-negotiable guarding against heresy. I am not writing about these foundations nor suggesting some new-age all inclusivism. New-age all inclusivism rejects Jesus as 'truth' and must also be rejected.

When it comes to this or that doctrine different Christians have that do not counter the basic foundational truths of the Bible and Christ it would be beneficial for Christians to look at Jesus as the author and finisher of our joint united faith and ask if what they believe lines up with what Jesus revealed about God's nature and character. Doing so causes a seeker to gain sight of the big picture and discover that the sky does indeed have many hues while remaining 'one sky.'

I hope this makes sense to the reader and understand why I wrote: “We, as Human beings, have a propensity to err of the side of selectivity of picking and choosing what appeals to us. We are all guilty of this. This comes about from a sense to be right and better than others and can lead to self exultation and exclusivist notions which appeal to the carnal senses of the flesh. Until we can look at the whole, we'll continue to argue over the parts.”

I should add, in closing, for clarity, “Until we can look at the whole, many will continue to argue 'with hostility' over 'non-essential' parts,” was what I was getting at in that statement. Hope this helps.-
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FFC
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Post by FFC »

BW wrote:I hope this makes sense to the reader and understand why I wrote: “We, as Human beings, have a propensity to err of the side of selectivity of picking and choosing what appeals to us. We are all guilty of this. This comes about from a sense to be right and better than others and can lead to self exultation and exclusivist notions which appeal to the carnal senses of the flesh. Until we can look at the whole, we'll continue to argue over the parts.”
It makes perfect sense to me. I've been there and it is a very lonely and futile existence. No life to speak of. I don't want to be defined by what I believe, but rather who I believe in. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I thank God than when He looks at me He sees Him...and not the pond scum that I really am.
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?
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B. W.
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Post by B. W. »

FFC wrote:
BW wrote:I hope this makes sense to the reader and understand why I wrote: “We, as Human beings, have a propensity to err of the side of selectivity of picking and choosing what appeals to us. We are all guilty of this. This comes about from a sense to be right and better than others and can lead to self exultation and exclusivist notions which appeal to the carnal senses of the flesh. Until we can look at the whole, we'll continue to argue over the parts.”
It makes perfect sense to me. I've been there and it is a very lonely and futile existence. No life to speak of. I don't want to be defined by what I believe, but rather who I believe in. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I thank God than when He looks at me He sees Him...and not the pond scum that I really am.
Amen!

If we understood that abundant life / eternal life involves receiving God's love and then be that reflection of his love back where we have been assigned then true restoration of our true purpose and meaning for living makes life abundant and new every morning.

People strive to make sense of things but then they get messed up — Sola Fide is but one example. Why do we exist? What is our purpose? Is to grow old and just die? Does our life we now live amount to anything? Have we made a difference? The only way one can discover answers, real answers, to these age old questions is through Jesus Christ.

For Sola Fide, faith in Christ in primary; in fact faith involves relationship. As to believe entails more that intellectual assent to scripture. Without developing that relationship with the Lord by the ways and means God supplies, one will fall away from ever finding the meaning to life. Many have done so.

What is faith? How does it work? Why did God show grace and spare us abandonment? It is nice to know and comprehend the judicial aspects of God's work of salvation but knowing the reality of why 'grace' is what converts the soul.

So why grace and not wrath?
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