"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
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Well, I have hooked her up with a professional, Christian counselor will do counsel for free but she will not go. She says she does not need to but then turns around and tells me how it causes problems in her life. I believe she knows what to do but she is afraid her own father and other family members who know and helped cover this up will turn on her.salt wrote:If she was a minor I'd say report it no matter what. But since she's 21 she's certainly an adult and must be treated as one by you even if her father doesn't.
On that note however, since she is still under his mental influence, is she still living at home or does she have some free will or freedom of movement? No matter what, I'd do some research, and find a counselor (a true Christian organization!) and urge her to go. Take her there yourself. Ideally, check with a local crisis pregnancy center, they deal with sexual abuse often and have resources already at hand. I personally don't feel very qualified to give you much more advice than that which I've said. People who work in this field daily are much more knowledgable in the nuances involved in this situation. Hopefully you are not in a small town.
I used scripture to convince her she should turn him in but then her father spoke with her and told her it has already been taken care of and I was wrong for bringing it back up. I spoke with them both at my home. What it boiled down to is him admitting he was wrong for not reporting it back in the day but now since so much time is passed it would be wrong to rehash it. He also used the "do not judge" position. Presently she refuses to speak with anyone other than her father about it because he told her it was the business of nobody else.salt wrote:Also, we are called to obey the civil laws of the land in which we reside. I can't think of the verses right now, but Biblically this guy still needs to be brought to the civil courts. Go to your Bible and find the relevant scriptures to augment your case when you next speak with her.
Do you have a concordance? What version of the Bible does she use? You can go here and search http://bible.gospelcom.net/ I'm searching but so far no luck, had some close but not the scripture(s) I have in mind
The problem is we do not know if he has stopped or not. Because he access to children without the parents knowing of his past he is not restricted in any way when dealing with children. In addition, when asked why he did it he says he does not know. I question that. First of all, he knows. We know he knows. Knowing he "groomed" other children we also know it goes beyond being attracted to this one child. He has a problem. That problem, in my opinion, cannot be dealt with unless he admits he has a problem. How do you get help for something you claim does not exist? As soon as he admits he has a problem (pedophilia?) then he can get help.Mastermind wrote:Seeing how i am one of the few people who believe in redemption, I will not pass judgement unless I know for fact what happened. If he truly is sorry and has stopped, I see no reason to torment him further as his own guilt is probably punishment enough. If he hasn't stopped, however, bring down the hammer.
Deb, I agree. But how do I warn them? Normally I could write the pastor or another church leader about it but considering they know and think nothing about it, that is not an option. The Children's Department director is a member of my family and the sister of the victim and is brainwashed by these folks to believe everything is okay. Unlike many churches, this church has no policy on reporting child abuse or neglect. I wonder why? The same goes for the church the father of the victim pastors. I know for a fact the South Carolina Baptist Covention mailed every church they are affiliated with in the state a pamphlet on developing a plan to report child abuse (this following the Catholic Church's scenario). These two churches have no policy regarding child abuse and state whether they report the abuse depends on the person who is the abuser. If the person is a Christian then do not report. Instead ask them to repent and if they do, then fine.Deborah wrote:I personally believe that the parents of the children should be warned, if this guy is still around their children. You can't keep people in the dark, they expect and trust their children will be safe. maybe they are safe, but the chance should never be taken that they are not.
I can say that from experience because the man who raped me as a child had done it before, but nobody bothered to warn my Parents, and he was never reported.
Since she lives with you, can you somehow get the/a counselor to come over (dinner perhaps?) in a more personal, very casual way? The counseler might be able to open her up and get an assessment of the situation. No matter what happens with the abuser, she needs to find her own life. She needs to find, set and maintain boundaries between herself and her father. Have you ever read or heard of the book 'Boundaries' by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend? If she's not a reader, I think it's available as a book on tape too. Here's a description:sofalogic wrote: Well, I have hooked her up with a professional, Christian counselor will do counsel for free but she will not go. She says she does not need to but then turns around and tells me how it causes problems in her life. I believe she knows what to do but she is afraid her own father and other family members who know and helped cover this up will turn on her.
I have to say this, I'm sorry.... but what a jerk! How does he find out that she's thinking about it? I have this sinking feeling that she mentions it to him . . .She no longer lives with her father. He asked her to leave his home when she was 18 because she "got on his nerves." She had no place to go so my wife and I took her in. Her father basically has nothing to do with her until she starts to believe she should report the abuser and then he swoops in and tells her how much he cares for her, does not want to see her go through all of it again, etc.
We are not in a very small town but this involves plenty of family and friends who run in the same circle. Many of which look at this abuser (not knowing what he has done) as some awesome Christian. It is a very delicate situation. I do not want to run the church or the church's reputation through the mud but at the same time this guy walking around with full access to children (including his own).
Mastermind wrote:Seeing how I am one of the few people who believe in redemption, I will not pass judgement unless I know for fact what happened. If he truly is sorry and has stopped, I see no reason to torment him further as his own guilt is probably punishment enough. If he hasn't stopped, however, bring down the hammer.
She no longer lives with me. She ended up getting pregnant, got married, and moved out. I tried the "think about other children" route but her father, the abuser, and other people who are involved in this cover up have her convinced he has not done it since and will never do it again. That may indeed be the case but what are the odds.salt wrote:Since she lives with you, can you somehow get the/a counselor to come over (dinner perhaps?) in a more personal, very casual way? The counseler might be able to open her up and get an assessment of the situation. No matter what happens with the abuser, she needs to find her own life. She needs to find, set and maintain boundaries between herself and her father. Have you ever read or heard of the book 'Boundaries' by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend? If she's not a reader, I think it's available as a book on tape too. Here's a description:sofalogic wrote: Well, I have hooked her up with a professional, Christian counselor will do counsel for free but she will not go. She says she does not need to but then turns around and tells me how it causes problems in her life. I believe she knows what to do but she is afraid her own father and other family members who know and helped cover this up will turn on her.
"When to say yes. When to say no. To take control of your life. Having clear boundaries is essential to maintaining a healthy, balanced lifestyle. Often, Christians focus so much on being loving and unselfish that they forget their own limits and limitations. Discover biblically based principles for finding appropriate emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual limits." If nothing else, you and your wife should read it because you can toss tidbits of counsel to her in normal conversation.
She is is desperate need for assistance. You two are so awesome to bring her into your home and give her so much help and love!
I have to say this, I'm sorry.... but what a jerk! How does he find out that she's thinking about it? I have this sinking feeling that she mentions it to him . . .She no longer lives with her father. He asked her to leave his home when she was 18 because she "got on his nerves." She had no place to go so my wife and I took her in. Her father basically has nothing to do with her until she starts to believe she should report the abuser and then he swoops in and tells her how much he cares for her, does not want to see her go through all of it again, etc.
We are not in a very small town but this involves plenty of family and friends who run in the same circle. Many of which look at this abuser (not knowing what he has done) as some awesome Christian. It is a very delicate situation. I do not want to run the church or the church's reputation through the mud but at the same time this guy walking around with full access to children (including his own).
Yes it is a very delicate situation. You certainly are in a hard place as is she. Do you think his wife and (I forget the other relation), tend to watch him closely around the kids or do they blindly trust him.
I agree that yes, God could easily have cured him, but with other children involved... whew. What does the girl think? Is she worried about the kids? If so, do you think you can focus on her duty to protect them? This may sound radical, but maybe you could posit the possibility that she get counseling to heal her, and then begin doing youth work at that church to place herself in between -- a guardian angel so to speak. It may be best to not fous on her past but on the possibility of other children being subjected to her past and her present. (I'm just tossing things up in the air here, so bear with me) I'm trying visualize that sort of a change in the type of community you describe... may raise some eybrows, but if done in a logical, well though out way...
Let me clear up a few things. The father is a pastor of a church. The abuser is on staff as a media specialist or something like that at the church his "group" started. Two different churches. He claims he is called to work with kids. He was the youth minister at this church until several months ago. In the past he was also a missionary to Indonesia. His wife and sister help my other niece run the children's church. They allow him to work with the children at the church because they do not believe he would do it again. My niece has mentioned to me before she often questions his motives when observing him work with the children but then tells herself she needs to let it go and let God handle it.salt wrote: sofalogic
He needs to be shown that he must preach a sermon on the sins of sexual molestation with an open confession to his congregation. This is the best Biblical way to show that he is fully relying on God's grace to ensure his pastoral leadership truly comes from God. To show that he is fully contrite and repenting. If the whole congregation ups and leaves, well so be it -- God's will.
Part of me wants to say,"well they should know best", but it happened before on their watch so .....Let me clear up a few things. The father is a pastor of a church. The abuser is on staff as a media specialist or something like that at the church his "group" started. Two different churches. He claims he is called to work with kids. He was the youth minister at this church until several months ago. In the past he was also a missionary to Indonesia. His wife and sister help my other niece run the children's church. They allow him to work with the children at the church because they do not believe he would do it again.
Wow. It is her duty to do God's work; to protect the innocent. He does things through people, He doesn't do it for us. I'm sure you've gone there with her on that. Does she say anything to him or anyone else when he does inappropriate things or things that she thinks is not quite right?My niece has mentioned to me before she often questions his motives when observing him work with the children but then tells herself she needs to let it go and let God handle it.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like she carried this with her to God. Do you know how/who she wanted to turn him in to? By the way he still falls apart he is still carrying the guilt even if not adding more. He needs help. If he was truly forgiven and had repented he'd be more incllined to ensure he wasn't under suspicion, and ideally would be led to minister to those who he can best identify with, those who have/had the same 'urges', the same sin or temptations. Not led to be constantly near the temptation.Just for the record, my sister who was married to the father, struggled with this. She wanted to turn this guy in and it caused serious marriage problems between her and the father.
You can verify he lied?He claims he told several people who had children this man came in contact with. Not true. He claims this man received professional therapy for this problem. Not true. He claims he has talked to several other ministers and they all agreed he handled this biblically. Not true. At this point, he is telling lie after lie to keep this underwraps.
In general. I don't expect much of atheists and agnostics, but it really bothers me when Most Christians believe in things like capital punishment.Just curious -- why do you say you are one of the few? (On this board, on this topic, in christianity?)
I'm not taking a particular side, although I agree that the facts do appear stacked against him. I do suggest, however, to try and find out if he's still at it or not.Admittedly, in this case, we all did jump in and seem to assume he's still at it. I'm not a catholic but I believe that confession of a crime is good for the soul. If he had confessed to his congregation, if he used this past sin to show God's power to change the sinner, then I'd say he's redeemed. But since he still hides it he's not to be trusted. Especially since he's in a position of power, leadership and control. He may be redeemed in Gods eyes, but hiding the truth taints the redemption in my point of view.
I know pastors that ensure they are never alone with a woman who is not his wife just to ensure no possible sense of impropriety can ever be construed. This pastor should distance himself from all children's ministry for the same reason.
BTW I do not believe in Capital Punishment, I believe Capital Punishment is Murder.In general. I don't expect much of atheists and agnostics, but it really bothers me when Most Christians believe in things like capital punishment.
Report Statutory Rape and Other Sexual Abuse - Help protect underage girls from the sexual predators that are seeking to exploit them. Call 940-380-8800 if you know of a situation where a healthcare provider, clinic worker or any person working for a "family planning service" failed to report contact with an underage girl who was known to be pregnant or sexually active. If you reach us after hours, then leave us a message and we will call you back the next business day.
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There is a growing threat to young girls from sexual predators, many of whom would have been caught and thrown into jail if their crimes had not been covered up. To get these child predators off the street, we must prosecute anyone who protects pedophiles by not complying with state mandatory reporting laws. Please call us if you are aware of any victims of statutory rape or any other sexual abuse that had contact with any clinic or "family planning service".
The best weapon that we have against those who help sexual predators evade detection is litigation. By forcing pedophile protectors to pay for the harm they are causing to present abuse victims, future victims and the parents of these girls, we can keep child predators off the streets and put them in jail where they belong.
Call Life Dynamics at (940) 380-8800 - from 8am to 5pm (Central).
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Encourage anyone who may have been a victim of statutory rape or other sexual abuse to contact us and to consider taking legal action against those who covered up her abuse. This also applies to the parents of a girl who was the victim of such abuse. In order to break the cycle of abuse and cover-up, those who protect pedophiles must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Interestingly, a perfect model for one of our litigation strategies is being created at this very moment. We are all aware of the firestorm currently swirling around the Catholic Church regarding the issue of pedophile priests. Already, dioceses have either settled or lost lawsuits totaling hundreds-of-millions of dollars - and some have been forced to close schools and sell property to pay off these awards.
If you look at these suits, what you find is that these Catholic dioceses are not being sued because their priests molested children. They are being sued for negligence because they allegedly knew about the sexual abuse of children and failed to report it to the authorities.
These suits contend that by protecting pedophile priests and concealing their behavior, these dioceses were in effect guaranteeing that there would be additional victims in the future.