Evidence for God from Science

B. W. wrote:

Denny wrote:KJV 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. I am hoping that I read this wrong and it does not apply to Revelations or the end times.
Thanks, Denny

Mark 13:30, "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

This is from Mark's Gospel. You should read this to mean that the people alive at that particular prophetic time will experience what Jesus is saying as he is directly referring to them and not those standing there. You can also reason that every one in heaven will witness the events of Revelations happening when they do and thus those standing there would see this from a heavenly vantage point without contradiction.

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An alternate explanation I've heard Pastor Perry Stone give on this verse that I think has some merit is that John was one of those who was present and thus fulfilled it when he was given the vision of Revelation.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

question : Now has "Heaven and earth shall pass away"? No not yet, and what generation was HE talking about??

The fig tree generation.

Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
That was a command from Christ to learn the parable.
Whats summer? Harvest time, harvest of people.

Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
What's it? The end of this fleshly age.

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
"all these things be done", those things written of in the seven seals.

You have to know the parable to understand the consummation of the end of this earth age. You don't plant figs trees, but
set out shoots. This fig tree will not have time to produce fruit, only leaves.

You can read in Jer 24 about Figs, 2 baskets of Figs, 1 good and 1 very bad. Figs are people, in May 15th,1948 the little nation of Israel (Judah would return to Jerusalem) became a nation again after 2000 aprx years had passed. That started the generation of the Fig Tree. Fig also means hidden, like in the garden of eden they used fig leaves to hid their parts.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
mountains are always symbolic of nations/governments/kingdoms

These are nations/government systems that all had control over Jerusalem.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
five are fallen, gone, over fallen: (the words "are fallen" refers to 'the loss of power to reign')

1. Babylon
2. Medio-Persia
3. Greece
4. Rome
5. Mohammedans

One is:
6. The good and bad figs (True Judah and spurious Judah [Kenites] Jer 24)

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Satan's "beast" government is the 7th government/kingdom which shall have rule over Jerusalem, and from Jerusalem, the world. Rev 13, Dan 2 is how the image is "set up". Dan 7 the forth beast system is the last and same as Rev 13.

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

Satan's "beast" government is the 7th government/kingdom which shall have rule over Jerusalem, and from Jerusalem, the world.
We can see this in Revelations 19:20, and that which shall become of this government.

We are also told of Satan's 'most unholy spirit' (the false prophet), and it's end.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The ultimate "false prophet" is Satan's most unholy spirit, which he uses upon the minds of his servants (fallen angels and some flesh men), and he uses to influence all who are deceived of him.

The "eighth" is Satan, himself, stripped of all his disguises and roles, plus all those who would rather be 'blotted out' than to live by GOD's Law. The 'king of perdition' and his government of people shall be blotted out in the "lake of fire" at the end of the LORD'S DAY/millennium Rev 20.

So when will this occur, 7? Do you think this is happening NOW, or will happen far in the future?

jenna wrote:So when will this occur, 7? Do you think this is happening NOW, or will happen far in the future?

We are in the "Sorrows".

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
"nation shall rise against nation" Nations of people shall rise up against other nations. This is speaking of people of different religions, cultures, and with differeing laws which will come against another, or against all other nations.

"and kingdom against kingdom" This speaks of governments against other governments.

"earthquakes, in divers places" This lends to cause one to understand that these "earthquakes, in divers place" are unlike other earthquakes which this generation has experienced, in their location and magnitude.

sorrows 5604 wdin odin o-deen'
akin to odunh - odune 3601; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth:--pain, sorrow, travail.


This sequence of events are all a part of the "the beginning of sorrows",which are likened unto birth pangs of a woman. You know how a woman in bringing forth a child, her pains start out light then get stronger and stronger till a birth takes place. Thats the way the end of this earth age is. These sorrows get stronger and stronger till we
have the birth of a new age.

And the Wars and rumors of Wars is also the "second seal."

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
"horses" are symbloic of power.
"red" is for blood.
"and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth", this speaks of the same Wars and rumors of Wars.

You make some good points, but it is my understanding that we are past the "sorrows" and are now in the full stages of "labor". The end time, or "birth", is almost here and in fact we are in the very last days. All the prophecies of earthquakes, war, famine, pestilence, etc., are now coming to pass. Note that God likens the end times to the days of Noah, where the entire world was so evil that He could not bear the sight of humanity any more. Surely this is the state of the world today. Every day there are more reports of murder, famine, drought, earthquakes, rape, fathers and mothers killing children, children killing parents, etc. I do not even watch the news anymore because it's depressing and sickening to hear. Just in the last century alone, man has become more capable of technology advances that were never even heard of just 50 years ago. Computers, telephones, cell phones, automobiles, computers, airplanes, trains, boats, ships, etc. God also said in the last days many "would run to and fro". Surely this is the only time in history that this is possible.

jenna wrote:You make some good points, but it is my understanding that we are past the "sorrows" and are now in the full stages of "labor". The end time, or "birth", is almost here and in fact we are in the very last days. All the prophecies of earthquakes, war, famine, pestilence, etc., are now coming to pass. Note that God likens the end times to the days of Noah, where the entire world was so evil that He could not bear the sight of humanity any more. Surely this is the state of the world today. Every day there are more reports of murder, famine, drought, earthquakes, rape, fathers and mothers killing children, children killing parents, etc. I do not even watch the news anymore because it's depressing and sickening to hear. Just in the last century alone, man has become more capable of technology advances that were never even heard of just 50 years ago. Computers, telephones, cell phones, automobiles, computers, airplanes, trains, boats, ships, etc. God also said in the last days many "would run to and fro". Surely this is the only time in history that this is possible.

Does it remind you of these vs? It takes a strong person to watch news all the awful stuff that goes on.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Yes, that very much sounds like end times to me.

jenna wrote:Yes, that very much sounds like end times to me.

I'm no scholar in this...nor do I worry a lot about it. If I'm sure I'm right with Jesus every day....then I'm good to go regardless of when or how it all happens.

But my take on it is:
Jesus said in Matt 24:8 there will will be the beginning of sorrows like the birth pains of a woman. Birth pains getting closer together means the time of the birth is approaching. All the stuff going on in the world such as wars, catastrophes, famines, etc. will get closer and closer together instead of being spread out from decade to decade or year to year.

These become not only closer together but they are the beginning, or sign, of the wrath of God being 'poured out' upon the evil that has held the earth in bondage - Romans 8:19—23.

I know some areas of the world are already facing horrible things each day....but I think until the 'whole world' does...it still doesn't mean we are in the Tribulation period. I'm sitting here with coffee, a bagel and the heater on. Obviously, I'm not suffering to some catestrophic proportion which would line up with God's supernatural anger being poured out over the whole earth. Obviously we are getting closer everyday.....but we aren't there yet.

Again...this is just my opinion.

Denny wrote:KJV 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
I am hoping that I read this wrong and it does not apply to Revelations or the end times.
Thanks,
Denny

But Jesus was right. John saw the second coming in his vision that led to the book of Revelations. So John did see this come to pass before he died. And bear in mind - a lot of the prophecies was also referring to the destruction of the temple as well - which also came to pass.

Yes, many have come to pass, like the temple being destroyed. But the temple will be rebuilt, and then destroyed again in the near future. Armies will once again surround Jerusalem, and there will be a second abomination of desolation to occur.

I don't worry about the end times. I'm already living them. I can see how they might be a bummer for you though. Hopefully for us both Jesus shows up sometime soon.