sabbath keeping

[edwardamo]

Well, I'm glad to hear you believe that Christ is God, even though it seems to me that your choice of words implied otherwise. I apologize for seeming like I was "jumping" on you; I just meant that people who don't see Christ as God are not Christians, and I hope you would agree with that.

More importantly, I still don't understand your point--whether it was God the Father or God the Son who made the Sabbath has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Christians are commanded to keep it.

Regarding Acts 20:7, I admit it was a bit of a special occasion and so doesn't really prove that the Christians regularly met on Sunday (though I still think that is the most likely explanation given how the early "Church Fathers" described their practice in the extra-Biblical literature). But again, let's stick to the subject of the Sabbath instead of going off on the tangent of Sunday, which it sounds like we both agree is not the same thing. Whether or not the NT Christians regularly met on Sunday, that does not mean that God commands us to keep the Sabbath. He doesn't, as Col. 2:16-17 makes very clear.

One last thing: In your initial question on this thread it sounded like you were looking for more information/explanation on this topic, so I wanted to help out, and it's been nice talking to you. But I am not interested in having an argument, so if you already have a particular view that you are trying to convince everyone of, then I guess I will just say my adieus and go on to other things.

[jenna]

First of all I am not interested in arguements either. That is not why I post on this board. Second how can you say God does'nt command us to keep the Sabbath when the 4th commandent clearly states it? And in Colossians, this verse is simply stating no one tell you that you are wrong in keeping the Sabbath, or judging you by it. NOWHERE does it state that we are not to keep the Sabbath.

[zoegirl]

First of all I am not interested in arguements either. That is not why I post on this board. Second how can you say God does'nt command us to keep the Sabbath when the 4th commandent clearly states it? And in Colossians, this verse is simply stating no one tell you that you are wrong in keeping the Sabbath, or judging you by it. NOWHERE does it state that we are not to keep the Sabbath.

I, for one, take great joy in a sabbath rest. I LOVE my sunday naps (glorious sleep, what a great thing is sleep!) We ARE commanded to rest. I simply don't think this rest rests (ha!) on any specific day and as soon as why do this we begin to tkae steps towards legalism (jenwat, see my other posting for addressing what laws to keep). I think the sabbath rest is established in Genesis. Interstingly, the idea of a sabbath rest is used for the land as well, allowing the land to rest every seven years to become fertile again.

But a specific day?

[jenna]

You were right about the land resting every 7 years. As for a specific day, YES. I think I will leave this subject alone for now though until I can get more verses that specify the day. Maybe I'll rest on it. On Saturday.

[zoegirl]

You were right about the land resting every 7 years. As for a specific day, YES. I think I will leave this subject alone for now though until I can get more verses that specify the day.

We'll just have to agree to disagree....although if CHrist stated that to work on the sabbath to save someone is valid, then I hardly think he quibbles as to the day. Again, if everyone followed the sabbath , then nobody better get sick, or need help, or need saving. And all of those rescue workers and emergency room workers need to repent every week for violoating the sabbath?

[jenna]

no, as stated in an earlier post, even Christ healed on the Sabbath. Now we are back to square one. There are certain types of "work" that were acceptable on the Sabbath, such as healing. Doing good works on the Sabbath, or totally necessary work (ox in the ditch scenario) were acceptable.

[edwardamo]

And in Colossians, this verse is simply stating no one tell you that you are wrong in keeping the Sabbath, or judging you by it. NOWHERE does it state that we are not to keep the Sabbath.

Col. 2:16-17 (NASB): Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you interpret this to mean we SHOULD keep the Sabbath (i.e., saying no one is to judge you for doing it, instead of saying no one is to judge you for not doing it, as I think the context clearly implies), then so be it. But to be consistent, then by your interpretation you would also have to say this passage tells us we should still keep the Jewish dietary laws, yearly festivals, and new moon offerings as well. Do you do that?

BTW, I have never said that we must not keep the Sabbath. I've only said that we don't have to. Just like we don't have to keep all the other OT laws and ceremonial regulations that found their fulfillment in Christ.

[jenna]

Yes, actually I do keep the dietary laws. I do not eat pork, shellfish, shrimp, crab, lobster, etc. Or anything else the Lord has said is "unclean". I do keep the festivals. The Passover, Feast of unleavened bread, day of atonement, etc. And while I do believe everyone has their choice of what day they choose to keep as the Sabbath, I personally believe that God commands it to be the 7th day, which is Saturday.

[FFC]

Yes, actually I do keep the dietary laws. I do not eat pork, shellfish, shrimp, crab, lobster, etc. Or anything else the Lord has said is "unclean". I do keep the festivals. The Passover, Feast of unleavened bread, day of atonement, etc. And while I do believe everyone has their choice of what day they choose to keep as the Sabbath, I personally believe that God commands it to be the 7th day, which is Saturday.

Jen, are you still under the law?

[jenna]

"Under the law"? As far as what? Do you mean the law of God? If that's what you mean then yes. I try to live my life according to what the bible says we should do.

[FFC]

"Under the law"? As far as what? Do you mean the law of God? If that's what you mean then yes. I try to live my life according to what the bible says we should do.

Jen, what do you think about this passge in Galatians 3.

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

[jenna]

Ok, I understand your point (I think). I believe Christ died for us, yes. However, I also think that AFTER we accept this, we should live our lives the way He would want us to live, that is doing the best we can and asking forgiveness when we sin. I'm not saying that man is saved by works alone, the bible clearly says we aren't, but after we accept Christ, to live a good life and follow His example.

[edwardamo]

Yes, actually I do keep the dietary laws. I do not eat pork, shellfish, shrimp, crab, lobster, etc. Or anything else the Lord has said is "unclean". I do keep the festivals. The Passover, Feast of unleavened bread, day of atonement, etc. And while I do believe everyone has their choice of what day they choose to keep as the Sabbath, I personally believe that God commands it to be the 7th day, which is Saturday.

Well, at least you are consistent...maybe. Do you believe circumcision is still required as well? After all, it was part of the same OT law that commands all those other things.

(BTW, if the answer is yes, may I ask for your explanation of Gal. 2:3 and Acts 15:5-11?)

[FFC]

Ok, I understand your point (I think). I believe Christ died for us, yes. However, I also think that AFTER we accept this, we should live our lives the way He would want us to live, that is doing the best we can and asking forgiveness when we sin. I'm not saying that man is saved by works alone, the bible clearly says we aren't, but after we accept Christ, to live a good life and follow His example.

I do agree with what you are saying as far as walking in obedience to Him. I just want to to see that it's only by God's Grace and Spiritual power that we can do anything for Him, not any works of the law. If the works of the law could of saved us we wouldn't have had need for Christ to come...which I believe was the whole purpose of everything anyway. Through Christ all things consist, so just being in Him who is righteous is enough to make us righeous in God's eyes, right?

The heart and spirit of the works of the law is love. This is why we are told the greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart mind soul and strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves. The law was from God and a great thing but it was impossible for anybody to keep and because of that it brought death...this is what is so great about Christ coming. He fulfilled the law for us who couldn't. It's called Grace and it is a wonderful thing. Jesus said "come unto me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest".

What do you think?

[jenna]

To ed, I personally believe in circumcision, yes. However, I do not think a person HAS to be circumcised in order to have salvation. Instead of an actual physical circumcision, it is now a circumcision of the MIND that is necessary. In Colossians 2:11-12 "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Also, ch. 3:11 "whether there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all".