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Re: holidays
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:46 pm
by Enigma7457
silent night is pop christmas?
Re: holidays
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:21 pm
by zoegirl
no, sorry, just wanted to clarify....I don't like when the pop artists try to redo old carols...unless they are really well done. I'm not a big fan of Bare naked ladies, but they do an amazing version of "God rest ye merry Gentlemen" with Sarah Mclaughlin (sp?)
Re: holidays
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:18 pm
by jenna
Byblos wrote:zoegirl wrote:Of course we don't know what day it was...so what? We celebrate His birth! Not His birth on some specific day!! and His birth is an INCRDIBLE thing to celebrate. God incarnated?!?! Yeah, I'll celebrate that
Just for clarity, Jenwat3 does not believe in the trinity nor (if I'm not mistaken) in the deity of Christ. Hence my question if she were JW.
Jenwat3, what are your thoughts on the Star of Bethlehem?
Just for clarity, I DO believe in the deity of Christ, dont know why you thought otherwise. I do not believe in the trinity, though. And my thoughts on the star of Bethlehem in what aspect?
Re: holidays
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:28 pm
by zoegirl
Also....we do know the days of resurrection and death of Christ because the recording of the Resurrection events are more specific, pointing to the actual day of the week, whereas in Genesis God merely establishes the purpose and the pattern of the week
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:00 am
by jenna
zoegirl wrote:Also....we do know the days of resurrection and death of Christ because the recording of the Resurrection events are more specific, pointing to the actual day of the week, whereas in Genesis God merely establishes the purpose and the pattern of the week
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. How do you know exactly what day of the week Christ died and when He was resurrected?
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:28 am
by zoegirl
Because we have a much better handle on the times and hours of the resurrection event that allow us to pinpoint when all of the events occurred.
These established traditions of men still don't point to what the seventh day originally was in the Garden, nor does it remain that it MUST be a saturday. Christ even spoke of the fact that the sabbath rest does not mean that you would not rescue you farm animals or perform a good deed. THe Pharisees were so wrapped up in what "work" was that they even worried about whether wearing sandals or carrying your sandals was considered breaking the sabbath.
I am fascinated by the fact that you are so driven with an antipathy towards tradition that you avoid celebrations like Christmas and easter and birthdays because they are simply traditions of men....and yet you insist that the seventh day has to be saturday when we really don't know and that established day is simply the tradition....
Does this mean that having an established traditional sabbath day is bad? Of course not, and if you have your sabbath rest on saturday, more power to you, but there is nothing sacred about that actual day.
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:44 am
by jenna
zoegirl wrote:Because we have a much better handle on the times and hours of the resurrection event that allow us to pinpoint when all of the events occurred.
These established traditions of men still don't point to what the seventh day originally was in the Garden, nor does it remain that it MUST be a saturday. Christ even spoke of the fact that the sabbath rest does not mean that you would not rescue you farm animals or perform a good deed. THe Pharisees were so wrapped up in what "work" was that they even worried about whether wearing sandals or carrying your sandals was considered breaking the sabbath.
I am fascinated by the fact that you are so driven with an antipathy towards tradition that you avoid celebrations like Christmas and easter and birthdays because they are simply traditions of men....and yet you insist that the seventh day has to be saturday when we really don't know and that established day is simply the tradition....
Ok, let me ask you this then. How do you know Jesus' resurrection was on Sunday and wheres the scripture to back this up?
Does this mean that having an established traditional sabbath day is bad? Of course not, and if you have your sabbath rest on saturday, more power to you, but there is nothing sacred about that actual day.
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:12 am
by Enigma7457
jenwat3 wrote:Ok, let me ask you this then. How do you know Jesus' resurrection was on Sunday and wheres the scripture to back this up?
At the end of Luke, the talk about the day before the resurrection as being a Sabbath. If that is a saturday (which i do not believe any is arguing that they celebrated the sabbath on a saturday), that would make the ressurection on a sunday. (i have to look up the actual scripture for this, but i am almost positive it is luke.)
Also, it puts his death on a Friday. Now, at first glance this seems like it would give the three days required, but it really does. The way they would have looked at it back then, Friday would be day one, even if he died that day they would still have counted it as day one. Saturday day two. And sunday, even though he rose on that day, would be day three.
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:20 am
by jenna
Thank you Enigma for replying. The question was actually for Zoegirl, though. I'm trying to make a point, here. If He died on a Friday, which is verified because He died the day before the Sabbath, then would that not make the Sabbath be on Saturday? The days of the week certainly could not have changed that much between the O.T and the N.T. Christ certainly knew what day the Sabbath was! Why don't we?
Re: holidays
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:04 am
by zoegirl
I dont deny that the TRADITION was that the sabbath was on saturday. But Genesis does not explicitly say that the sabbath is speceific day, just the seventh day, or, to be more applicable perhaps, the END of the creation week.
The point of sabbath is to rest after working, after completiong, to honor God, and to allow physical, emotional, and spiritual rest. IT's an important commandment to keep, but what day we keep it is irrelevant.
I said in a previous post (I'm not sure you read it, before Enigma's post) that it doesn't matter if you keep sabbath on a saturday or a sunday, it's that fact that you take that day of rest. I've talked to Pastors who regard Monday as their day of rest, because they are working on Sunday. Does this invalidate their Sabbath rest? Emergency room doctors and nurses who save lives on sunday or saturday? They should take a day of rest, but the fact that they worked on saturday is not a sin. They have not violated the sabbath.
Re: holidays
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:39 pm
by jenna
Thanks for replying, but my question is still unanswered. You say that Jesus died on a Friday and was resurrected on Sunday (new testament, not old). Again, how can you verify this if it doesn't give specific names to the day which He died and was resurrected? As far as doctors and nurses working on the Sabbath, even Jesus healed on the Sabbath, so I'm not exactly sure about this.
Re: holidays
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:00 am
by Enigma7457
i'm not sure if this is pertinant to the argument or not, but i watned to share the reasons i heard as to why we switched from Saturday to Sunday.
But, before i do, i want to clarify that i do not think the day is important, only the fact that we take that day. Soldiers cannot rest on specific days, and i don't fighting is excusable on the sabbath like healing is. Anyway...
The version i heard goes like this: When the romans became a 'christian' nation, they started a fasting tradition on saturdays. (Which, for them, was actually from friday night to saturday night). On sunday morning, they would end the fast with a large feast. Throughout time, the fasting was forgotten, but not the feast. Hence, the sunday celebration.
That's the version i heard, though i have not done any research myself. Again, though, i want to reiterate that i don't believe the day matters. God set up the six days of work and one day of rest, the sabbath.
On a side not, is it wrong that we work five days and rest two instead six and one like God commanded? Or does it matter we don't do the many other things God asked us to do every seven years?
Re: holidays
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:27 am
by jenna
You bring up some good points, Enigma. I would like say your version of the Sunday switch is different from what I heard. I always thought that the switch was made when the Roman empire decided to separate themselves from the Jews or Israelites by forcing them to switch days on when they worshipped God. Those who refused were considered "heretical" and were tortured until they either gave in and switched or died. It got so bad that true believers were forced to flee. Again I havent done very intense research, but this was just the basics of what I understood.
Re: holidays
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:44 pm
by jenna
Byblos wrote:zoegirl wrote:Of course we don't know what day it was...so what? We celebrate His birth! Not His birth on some specific day!! and His birth is an INCRDIBLE thing to celebrate. God incarnated?!?! Yeah, I'll celebrate that
Just for clarity, Jenwat3 does not believe in the trinity nor (if I'm not mistaken) in the deity of Christ. Hence my question if she were JW.
Jenwat3, what are your thoughts on the Star of Bethlehem?
In what aspect, Byblos?
Re: holidays
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:03 am
by Byblos
jenwat3 wrote:Byblos wrote:Jenwat3, what are your thoughts on the Star of Bethlehem?
In what aspect, Byblos?
Was it a good thing or a bad thing (to lead the Magi to Bethlehem)?