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Re: Question on Baptism
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:40 am
by phiver4
Swamper wrote:jenwat3 wrote:Right. Jesus was talking about SPIRITUAL rebirth, not physical. Nicodemus misunderstood what Jesus was talking about, so he was talking about a physical rebirth. Once you are spiritually reborn, you are able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But in order to be spiritually reborn, you have to be baptised with water. Again, "unless one is born of WATER and Spirit, you cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven". Clearly here Christ is talking about a SPIRITUAL rebirth, not a physical one.
It's been argued that the "water" here is referring to amniotic fluid...you know, like when a woman's "water breaks" when she's about to give birth? Thus "born of water" could refer to the original physical birth, not baptism.
Swamper,
Exactly.
Re: Question on Baptism
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:24 am
by jenna
In response to your post, Paul was not the only one who baptized. And Jesus DID baptise, not with water but with the Holy Spirit. As far as going to hell simply because you weren't baptised? I personally do not believe in hell or heaven immediately after death. I believe that people are judged after they awake in the resurrection, so no, I don't believe you would go to "hell" because you weren't baptised. God will judge after the resurrection, and will decide then whether we are fit for His kingdom or not.
Re: Question on Baptism
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:56 am
by phiver4
jenwat3 wrote:In response to your post, Paul was not the only one who baptized. And Jesus DID baptise, not with water but with the Holy Spirit. As far as going to hell simply because you weren't baptised? I personally do not believe in hell or heaven immediately after death. I believe that people are judged after they awake in the resurrection, so no, I don't believe you would go to "hell" because you weren't baptised. God will judge after the resurrection, and will decide then whether we are fit for His kingdom or not.
My point is if Paul truly thought Baptism in water was so important for Salvation then why did he avoid doing it? Jesus did baptise in the HOLY SPIRIT (not water), this is exactly right and the point I have been trying to make.
Re: Question on Baptism
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:58 pm
by jenna
So you don't think we should follow the example of Jesus and be baptised with water? Jesus Himself knew that it was necessary, so He Himself was baptized with water.
Re: Question on Baptism
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:43 am
by phiver4
jenwat3 wrote:So you don't think we should follow the example of Jesus and be baptised with water? Jesus Himself knew that it was necessary, so He Himself was baptized with water.
I think that it is important as an outward profession of your faith but not a requirement for Salvation because of all the reasons and Scripture I previously noted. In regards to Jesus being baptized, I will direct you back to my previous thread:
From the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry:
"Jesus was baptized because He had to fulfill the legal requirement for entering into the priesthood. He was priest after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4; Heb 5:8-10; 6:20). Priests offered sacrafices to God on behalf of the people. Jesus became a sacrafice for our sin. (1Peter 2:24; 2Cor 5:21) in His role as priest.
To be consecrated as a priest He had to be:
1) Washed with water (Lev 8:6; Exodus 29:4; Matt 3:16)
2) Annointed with oil (Lev 8:12; Exodus 29:7; Matt 3:16)
Both of these were bestowed on Him at His baptism."