Evidence for God from Science

jenna wrote:No, not all these things are brought up. This was actually an answer to John, about my beliefs. O know what you are saying though, and it does help some.

Have your beliefs changed recently and this is coming about or have there been differences all along?
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BavarianWheels wrote:

jenna wrote:No, not all these things are brought up. This was actually an answer to John, about my beliefs. O know what you are saying though, and it does help some.

Have your beliefs changed recently and this is coming about or have there been differences all along?
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.

No, I've strange all my life.

jenna wrote:No, I don't mind, but it will take more than a few sentences! My beliefs:Christmas is a pagan tradition that God hates, so is Easter, Halloween, New Year's, Valentine's, etc. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual "being",nor do I believe in the trinity. I do not believe in a hell where souls are eternally tormented. I believe that eating unclean foods is wrong. I believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath day, not Sunday. I believe that Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose again on a Saturday. I believe that faith and works go hand-in-hand for a person to be "saved". There are many other beliefs that I have that some would deem "heretical", but I am simply covering the more important ones right now. Any questions or thoughts on these?

Agreement with you on some of the same beliefs and of course disagreement on others. First of all the Holidays have coincided for several thousand years and yes started with Pagan Holidays or feasts having to do with harvests, plantings and in between times. They were just a convenient way to get the masses to accept them without much turmoil. Christ was believed to be born in the Sept/ Oct period and concieved during the month of Dec. The Holiday season in Dec were also a Jewish religous time and Gentile time when there wasn't much to do and pretty much got people back then to mingle and have something to do in a down time, to keep them out of trouble but whether G-d hates it or not it's just a time and since he is timeless I don't think that really matters much. The Holy Spirit be a "being" is another subject that doesn't have much to do with the ultimate goal but I do believe in the Trinity having two spirits one being the Father a spirit, Jesus of flesh and blood and the Holy Spirit which resides in all that would accept Him/Her in their hearts ( could just be another form Of G-d,Jesus or both). Just another belief but another take it or leave it belief that neither earns you eternal life. The simple rules for everlasting life are simple but true. Saturday is the true Sabbath no question about it as we all had discussed in a previous posting along with Wednesday being the day of crucifiction and Sat. being the resurection (you did point that out and as I researched it I did change my belief on that subject. Faith and works I feel very strongly on just for the fact that upon acceptance ( another topic which previously has been discussed in depth) you follow His way that would come under the works part. You have to do both not just one or the other which is very specific in Scripture. Unclean foods I do totally disagree on and that has also been discussed. Hell comes after the the final judgement and that's basically where the second death or spiritual death will occur. The torment I believe is that once judged and if not worthy the experience that you will never see or be with our G-d for eternity, which in my mind those consequences would be worse then anything imaginable. Only when that event happens will we ever know. I should have not been so long winded but the bottom line is no matter what a person believes, how far you try to go indepth whether right or wrong "Life Everlasting" has a few very simple rules which also has been discussed at length. To argue or to have an arguement over beliefs that are at times very vague is not the right thing to do. I have many family members and friends that have accepted Jesus Christ in their hearts do there very best to follow His way but there is not one of us that believe in 100% what the other individual believes in. If you believe you are saved, he believes the same, I believe the same and so does everyone else here and in the world believes the same this shouldn't be a fighting matter and a cause to grow apart from each other. I don't judge people period nor can I be judged by another person for my beliefs or ways. Part of this judgement thing by one another has been around since the beginning of humanity and has caused many wars and much suffering. What you believe is fine and what others believe is also fine as long as you don't inflict pain and suffering on another. Make no mistake you can also modify your beliefs as so many of us do through understanding and communication just as I have and those before me have. Look at Paul and the rest of the original gang. There changes in belief were very dramatic and most of them paid the ultimate price for what they truely believed in. Dicussing the topics are great but when you try to force your beliefs upon another without their acceptance I believe you start crossing the line. Christ is a very good example of this. He just threw it out there and individuals could either accept it or not it was never forced upon them as we humans try to do intentionally or not.

I agree with ALMOST everything you have said here, except for the Christmas part. I believe it does matter to God, since we are taking a pagan holiday and calling it "Christianity", when in fact it actually has nothing to do with Christ at all. God plainly condemns the mixing of pagan festivals with Christianity. He gave us certain days to celebrate, and did not want us to add to them.

I don't agree on what commercialism has done to the Christmas season but I think if you read about the reasons why it was changed and when it was changed those that were involved in that decision had very good intentions. It's like anything else you read and reasearch there are pros and cons and ones opinions can weigh heavily upon the scales. Christmas Day is just one day not two or a week or more. What it has evolved into does not set well with myself. I think if you reflect upon the true spirit of this special day it just might sway you some. What I mean by that it's not giving a gift you might make or shop for but giving of yourself to those around you as they give of themselves to you. Family, friends, casual aquantices, strangers and the like. Just as Christ did throughout His ministries ( He Gave of Himself) and asked for nothing in return. It is however a tool ( pretty smart of them back then) to introduce a whole lot of people all over the world to Christ by signifying His coming into the world on this one special day year after year. Greatist publicity stunt mankind has ever know in it's history and doesn't cost a cent unless you seek to gain financially from it. Think about it. I did provide the link below for anyone who would like to read about the history of Christmas Day. I read it about 3 weeks ago and found it informative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_day

jenna wrote:No, I don't mind, but it will take more than a few sentences! My beliefs:Christmas is a pagan tradition that God hates, so is Easter, Halloween, New Year's, Valentine's, etc. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual "being",nor do I believe in the trinity. I do not believe in a hell where souls are eternally tormented. I believe that eating unclean foods is wrong. I believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath day, not Sunday. I believe that Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose again on a Saturday. I believe that faith and works go hand-in-hand for a person to be "saved". There are many other beliefs that I have that some would deem "heretical", but I am simply covering the more important ones right now. Any questions or thoughts on these?

Out of curiosity. What church denomination to you attend, and do they hold similar beliefs?

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:No, I don't mind, but it will take more than a few sentences! My beliefs:Christmas is a pagan tradition that God hates, so is Easter, Halloween, New Year's, Valentine's, etc. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual "being",nor do I believe in the trinity. I do not believe in a hell where souls are eternally tormented. I believe that eating unclean foods is wrong. I believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath day, not Sunday. I believe that Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose again on a Saturday. I believe that faith and works go hand-in-hand for a person to be "saved". There are many other beliefs that I have that some would deem "heretical", but I am simply covering the more important ones right now. Any questions or thoughts on these?

Out of curiosity. What church denomination to you attend, and do they hold similar beliefs?

I actually do not belong to any "denomination", K. The "church" I follow is called The Restored Church of God. They teach all the beliefs and doctrines which I truly see as bible-based. If you wish to look at the beliefs and doctrines they adhere to, they can be found at RCG.org.

johnt wrote:I don't agree on what commercialism has done to the Christmas season but I think if you read about the reasons why it was changed and when it was changed those that were involved in that decision had very good intentions. It's like anything else you read and reasearch there are pros and cons and ones opinions can weigh heavily upon the scales. Christmas Day is just one day not two or a week or more. What it has evolved into does not set well with myself. I think if you reflect upon the true spirit of this special day it just might sway you some. What I mean by that it's not giving a gift you might make or shop for but giving of yourself to those around you as they give of themselves to you. Family, friends, casual aquantices, strangers and the like. Just as Christ did throughout His ministries ( He Gave of Himself) and asked for nothing in return. It is however a tool ( pretty smart of them back then) to introduce a whole lot of people all over the world to Christ by signifying His coming into the world on this one special day year after year. Greatist publicity stunt mankind has ever know in it's history and doesn't cost a cent unless you seek to gain financially from it. Think about it. I did provide the link below for anyone who would like to read about the history of Christmas Day. I read it about 3 weeks ago and found it informative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_day

John, I do not yet know how to give links here, so I will simply say that one way to find out about how Christmas truly began is to go to the website RCG.ORG., and locate the booklet "The true origin of Christmas". This goes into definite detail about how Christmas actually began. Some of it is actually very shocking, and it will let you know exactly why God condemns it.

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:No, I don't mind, but it will take more than a few sentences! My beliefs:Christmas is a pagan tradition that God hates, so is Easter, Halloween, New Year's, Valentine's, etc. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual "being",nor do I believe in the trinity. I do not believe in a hell where souls are eternally tormented. I believe that eating unclean foods is wrong. I believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath day, not Sunday. I believe that Jesus died on a Wednesday and rose again on a Saturday. I believe that faith and works go hand-in-hand for a person to be "saved". There are many other beliefs that I have that some would deem "heretical", but I am simply covering the more important ones right now. Any questions or thoughts on these?

Out of curiosity. What church denomination to you attend, and do they hold similar beliefs?

I actually do not belong to any "denomination", K. The "church" I follow is called The Restored Church of God. They teach all the beliefs and doctrines which I truly see as bible-based. If you wish to look at the beliefs and doctrines they adhere to, they can be found at RCG.org.

I found them at http://www.thercg.org/home.html. Just curious. Is there any belief that they have taught which you would actually disagree with?

jenna wrote:Basically when I try to point out why I believe what I do, he tells me I am being brainwashed into the way I am thinking. I know a few people here would agree but I just don't see it that way. Our differences are really making me question our marriage.

We do not know all the factors involved so I am not sure we are fit to comment.

Some passages in Scripture however you might find relevant to your particular situation:

Matthew 19:6
"So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Mark 10:5-9
"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

1 Corinthians 7:
10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? "

Oh, I know about this, K! And I definitely agree. Divorce isn't really an option here, that wasn't what I meant. I simply meant I was wondering if we ever should have been married in the first place. But we made our choices and have to stick with them. And don't get me wrong, I love my husband dearly. I wish we could see eye-to-eye, though.

Jenna, Kurieuo, Jont,

First thank you for the good readings.

Give me permission for 2 little stories (and again scuse my english).

Normande, the woman I love and I live with, would never come here in this group, or anywhere else, and discuss religious topics. She is the type of person that a lot of people, including her own children, friends, and co-workers say to themselves: how can she has the strenght to live and act as she does?

She works with seriously desable persons: Trysomics, Blind, Deaf, disordered children and teenagers, mentally retarded adults (the yougest is 17 and the oldest is 63), youg single women with children, etc. Many people find her special because she speaks the lips and deaf languages. But she does speak a lot of other lamguages, believe me.

One day she went to her boss and told him : I would like to make a big party with all these people and normal people all together, with music, dances, theater shows, etc. They told her she was crasy. She got everybody that could help her for the party to happen and finally won. The party goes on now since then every year for the last ten years. And its a lot of fun!

__________________________________

I was sitting one day with Fernand, a man of 79 years old. We where having a beer outside his house, under the sun. He had been sick lately. I asked him: Fernand, when you die, what will happen to you?

He looked at me straight in the eyes and said: To heaven. We both took a sip of our beer and didn't say a word for a couple of minutes... Then our eyes got together and we smiled. I had not a single doubt of his word.

Fernand is a very simple man. He is the father of Normande.

Victor

jenna wrote:Oh, I know about this, K! And I definitely agree. Divorce isn't really an option here, that wasn't what I meant. I simply meant I was wondering if we ever should have been married in the first place. But we made our choices and have to stick with them. And don't get me wrong, I love my husband dearly. I wish we could see eye-to-eye, though.

Jenna, my wife and I had doctrinal differences in the early years of my faith. We would argue about scripture and faith related matters until I began to wonder how we were ever attracted to each other. Oftentimes I felt awful, but divorce was not an option for us either.
After thorough studies, I explained to her how I tried with an open mind to see her side on the most important matters but could not grasp her belief's.
I ask her if I couldn't after a thorough and honest search understand her views and I am the one who is wrong, would GOD hold it against me? After some thought, she understood what I was saying. I hadn't said "you are wrong and I am right". This, I think, is what opened the door to our common ground which was more than either one of us had beforehand realized. The parts of our faith that we did share were more important than the differences to which niether of us could get from the other.
Today we share our prayers, talk about spiritual things we have just learned, and relate happenings in our daily and spiritual lives. All is not perfect but it is MUCH better knowing we just can't comprehend our opposing beliefs.

We as Christians often don't believe EVERYTHING our church offers up but we keep going back because of our common ground. Maybe it is like something I heard long ago-"GOD as you understand HIM".

jenna wrote:Oh, I know about this, K! And I definitely agree. Divorce isn't really an option here, that wasn't what I meant. I simply meant I was wondering if we ever should have been married in the first place. But we made our choices and have to stick with them. And don't get me wrong, I love my husband dearly. I wish we could see eye-to-eye, though.

Just I have seen churches split couples up over doctrinal issues. Not saying this is the case with you, but just saying. I think Paul's advice is quite good as a general principle, and it evidentially reveals how highly a marriage is to be respected.

I hope everything works will offer up some prayers for you guys.

Thank you K, for your prayers. And thank you, cross-eyed for your post, also. Maybe I will try your way. It seems like a good way to resolve things.