Evidence for God from Science

jenna wrote:Women have a say in matters of the home, but they ARE subject to their husbands. Just like an employee would be subject to a manager, but a wise manager will listen and discuss ideas with the employee, but in the end have the final say in how things are done.

Well said!

FL

jenna wrote:One note on this, Zebulon. Notice that it says "He that kills by the sword will be killed with the sword". Notice that two different words "by" and "with". This phrase means that those who kill by a sword will die with the sword, or with the sword still in his hand. Notice it doesn't say "will die BY the sword". A man fighting should rely on God to protect him, not a weapon. Weapons are useless. Only God can truly save.

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
52But Jesus told him, "Put your sword away. Anyone who lives by fighting will die by fighting.

King James Version (KJV)
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

New International Version
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

New American Standard Bible
52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for (1) all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.

1 - Genesis 9:6 :: New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Message (MSG)
52Jesus said, "Put your sword back where it belongs. All who use swords are destroyed by swords.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
52Then Jesus said to him, Put your sword back into its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

New Living Translation (NLT)
52"Put away your sword," Jesus told him. "Those who use the sword will be killed by the sword.

Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
52 Then Jesus said to him, `Put your sword back in its place. All people who fight with a sword will be killed by a sword.

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What - pray tell! - is your point, Zebulon???

FL

Zebulon wrote:Hello all...

What is the meaning of this phrase Revelation 13:10 :
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Thanks for sharing with me.

Victor

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This is a Hebrew idiom, translated into Greek, and then into English for expressing "destiny." Its also read in Jer 15:2, Jer 43:11.

Jer 15:2 And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.

Jer 43:11 And when he cometh, he shall smite the land of Egypt, and deliver such as are for death to death; and such as are for captivity to captivity; and such as are for the sword to the sword.

"Captivity" is the key word, for your destiny will be spiritually held "captivity by Satan" and his beast system or by the true Christ. Either you will have the "Seal of GOD" in your forehead, or the Satan's mark. We know the two witnesses are two destined to be killed. God's election are also held captive by almighty God, and they will witness when called to do so. The witnessing will be done by God's holy Spirit flowing through them.

"he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword", GOD's WORD is a "sharp twoedged sword" Rev 1:16. Satan also has a sword of lies.

Fürstentum,

My point is that for a sentence in the bible there could be many ways of understanding it depending who translated it, how that person understanded it, and in witch languages. This is where we have to be carefull. It is the words of God but translation is of men.

Victor

7trumpets wrote:We know the two witnesses are two destined to be killed. God's election are also held captive by almighty God, and they will witness when called to do so. The witnessing will be done by God's holy Spirit flowing through them.

7trumpets,

Would you care to bring more on this?

Thanks.

Victor

Zebulon wrote:

7trumpets wrote:We know the two witnesses are two destined to be killed. God's election are also held captive by almighty God, and they will witness when called to do so. The witnessing will be done by God's holy Spirit flowing through them.

7trumpets,

Would you care to bring more on this?

Thanks.

Victor

Hello Victor, about the two witnesses or the witnessing of the Elect to the World?

What exactly do you want to know about them, 7?

7Trumpets,

The two witnesses. Or should I say why did you bring the topic of the 2 witnesses. What are your thoughts on that.

Victor

Zebulon wrote:7Trumpets,

The two witnesses. Or should I say why did you bring the topic of the 2 witnesses. What are your thoughts on that.

Victor

Why did i bring up the two witnesses? If you don't have the "seal of truth" in your forehead/brain you will go and be captivity to satan and his beast system.

My thoughts on the two witnesses. That they are simply two fleshly men that shed their blood (Rev 11:8)in the streets of Jerusalem. They aren't biblically illiterate for they are full of the "oil of TRUTH" that flows from the HOLY SPIRIT (Zac 4:6).
In the parable of the 10 virgins Matt 25, 5 didn't have enough oil.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Let us read this as it was originally written, rather than with the added words by man.
"And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred threescore days, clothed sackcloth."

For 1260 days (about 2 weeks less than 3 1/2 years) GOD's Two Witnesses (who are two flesh men who have been in this earth age for all their days in the flesh) are clothed in "sackcloth".

What will GOD's "give unto my two witnesses"? HE will give then whatever HE deems they need in order for them to do their predestined tasks.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
These are both the "two olive trees" AND the "two candlesticks".

Zech 4:11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. (KJV)

These are "the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth".

Who are the "seven candlesticks"?

Rev 1:20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Only two churches out of the seven GOD found no fault with Smyrna and Philadelphia stand and witnesses for GOD.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
This speaks of 'fiery words' proceeding from their mouths.

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

When the two witnesses appear on earth and they start their witnessing, there will be no doubt who they are. Many religious leaders today speculate. You will know them by their words, if you are in tune with God's Word.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
heaven is shut at the time when Satan is here with his fallen angels. Rev 6:12-14.Rev 15:8.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
Rain is symbolic of truth that flows down from heaven from GOD.

The "waters" that these two witnesses have power over are the nations, and peoples of this earth [Revelation 17:15].
"smite the earth with all plagues", The same as in Rev 16, Exodus plagues were a "type"(1Cor 10:11).
Note why we put on the Gospel Armor Eph 6:12-13 that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
The two witnesses are delivered up by Satan's evil priesthood unto Satan's evil government.
"the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" is Satan the king of the bottomless pit Rev 9:11. And he is the head of gold Dan 2:32 Nebuchadnezzar was a type of Anti-Christ.
( Rev 9:4.) When Satan kills the two witnesses, he will break GOD's law and goes against God's order to "touch not those who have the seal of God in their foreheads."

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Where? "where also our Lord was crucified", Jerusalem
"Sodom and Egypt", sodom speaks of spiritual preversion as Idolatry. Egypt is captivity and oppression to satan's political beast system (Rev 13.) This also discribes the crowd who has taken over the Temple in the HOLY City Jerusalem.

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Why? Satan wants to prove the two cannot overcome death. (Psa 79:1-3)
Want to know when the end of this earth age is, this dispension of time? After 3 1/2 days then the seven trumpet sounds.

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Those who wandered after Satan and his system are not rejoicing at the death of these two.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
What occurs at this point? 1 Cor 15:52-58

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
"and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand"
This refers to Satan evil priesthood of 7,000 man-faced entities, which stood with him in their supernatural bodies before flesh man. (2 Cor 11:14-15) These will be immediately 'blotted out' at this moment.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Want to know where physically the ark of his testament/coventant is? In Heaven.
"Spiritually" today what is the ark of the Covenant? It is the WORD of GOD.

Sorry for the length

7Trumpets,

Thank you for your thoughts.

7trumpets wrote:If you don't have the "seal of truth" in your forehead/brain you will go and be captivity to satan and his beast system

Interresting! ...and be captivity to satan and his beast system.

I'll try the best I can not to wear a mask of chtistianity here... ;o)

The best way is by questionning:

So there is a beast system... and it is a system. Could it be that each and single one of us (human being) is a soul within the beast and this is the captivity? We are captive - of - our bodies or - in - our bodies? Could it be that this is the missing link?
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The two witnesses.

They have witness something, God I guess. One could be Elie (in french here, Eliha?). And the other one could be the witness of Jesus himself?


Victor

Zebulon, are you talking about ELIJAH? Elijah will not become one of the 2 witnesses. There are actually 3 "Elijah's" mentioned in the bible. One was the original Elijah, one was a type of "Elijah", and was John the baptist, and the third was somebody else, who has come and prophesied and is now dead.

jenna wrote:Zebulon, are you talking about ELIJAH? Elijah will not become one of the 2 witnesses. There are actually 3 "Elijah's" mentioned in the bible. One was the original Elijah, one was a type of "Elijah", and was John the baptist, and the third was somebody else, who has come and prophesied and is now dead.

Well Jenna, can the first witness be a witness of God, one that had been present with God Himself? Then who is he? And then, could it be that the second witness is somebody that witnessed the crucifiction and thus the resurrection, being a witness of God also?

Victor

jenna wrote:One was the original Elijah, one was a type of "Elijah", and was John the baptist, and the third was somebody else, who has come and prophesied and is now dead.

So then, is the first Elijah went directly to God? And thus never yet died? Or is it somebody else in the bible (OT or NT)?

Tahnks.

Victor

Zebulon wrote:

jenna wrote:One was the original Elijah, one was a type of "Elijah", and was John the baptist, and the third was somebody else, who has come and prophesied and is now dead.

So then, is the first Elijah went directly to God? And thus never yet died? Or is it somebody else in the bible (OT or NT)?

Tahnks.

Victor

The first Elijah died. Notice Elijah was a prophet, as was John the baptist. The parallels between the two is why John was called the "second Elijah". While it is unknown who the two witnesses will be, it will not be the "third Elijah", or the third PARALLEL to Elijah. This man has already come and prophesied, and is now dead. The two witnesses will be alive and will prophesy during the great tribulation.